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I really don't like making grand pronouncements (I think it's a bit narcissistic) but since I seem to have a reputation on The Motte I think it's only fair to take my licks:
Blah blah blah, words words words, excuses excuses, feel free to get your licks in now.
It’s not a victory because as I and everyone else here told told you over and over again the war wasn’t actually over and when the Democrats blow out the Midterms, Trump will have to cut an embarrassing and humiliating deal. The Iranian regime is still around and the US accomplished almost none of their stated war aims (only sank their blue water navy). The best case scenario is now the pre-war consensus. Nobody will ever be dumb enough again to try to topple this regime, so it completely backfired. They will almost assuredly keep their nuclear material. It was a national humiliation.
Like what pisses me off the most is that the rest of the world is now going to have to pay a Hormuz toll for however many next decades because of this crap. And if things get worse, we may also end up having to pay a Bab Al Mandeb toll to Yemen. The US is effectively insulated from this becuase it's literally on the other side of the world but the rest of us all have to suffer
Maybe the rest of the world should have done something about it then, instead of sitting around and dunking on Trump.
Do what? Every time USA doing something bad, the response of civilized world is just wait and hope it ceases to do bad.
The post-ceasefire Strait of Hormuz ship-escorting was the window of opportunity for the 'civilized world' to shape the prospect of future maritime protection racket fees, because it was the chance for non-belligerents to credibly signal where they stood on the spectrum from sovereign defense of free maritime traffic through international waters to willingness to accept unilateral maritime boundary changes and corresponding extortion.
This might (or might not) have mattered because the Iranian strategy would have factored an international maritime escort coalition into their negotiating strategy differently than a US-only effort. Had, say, French and Indian vessels been escorting Qatari LNG and kept escorting despite the first few UAV attacks, then the Iranian strategic forecasts might have differed, seen it as a non-viable strategy, and shifted course month within a few months.
Instead, the Iranians (correctly) judged that the civilized world would rather pay protection racket fees than to defend their flagged shipping, would offset the blame of continued attacks onto the Americans, and so made the bet that they should prolong the conflict past the mid-terms to increase their negotiating leverage. Which is just as likely to be increased beyond 2029, since the midterms don't actually compel Trump to make a deal and in various ways make it less likely. Which could mean years more of the Strait of Hormuz disruption.
The civilized world's chance for a quicker off ramp to a world less likely to have tolls was back in April-May. The collective (non)decision since then has given the uncivilized world the better part of a year to start forming their own thoughts on further ways to get their own cut.
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If the USA just vanished in thin air tomorrow Iran would still be bombing ships and charging tolls. So maybe if the rest of the world doesn't like tolls they should do something about it.
The question stands: do what?
Comment above pretty much explains it better than I can, I agree with this 100%: https://www.themotte.org/post/4059/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/495534?context=8#context
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Trump is the whole reason that's happening, if it is. "Dunking on" him is entirely appropriate.
Maybe, but it won't help them resolve their situation at all
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Maybe if Trump hadn't started bombing Iran in the first place we'd still have no tolls on Hormuz.
Yeah but so what. If the rest of the world would rather have tolls than lift a single finger, then they deserve it all the more.
This kind of mentality is why the right just lost Texas, South Carolina, and friggin' Mississippi.
Ideology is a hell of a drug, and some people just have a hard time letting it go. Not targeting anyone in particular, but at some point you have to ask yourself why you bother having these conversations when it gets to this point; and just walk away.
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