This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Not gonna leave any room for persuasion or the "changes come one tombstone at a time"?
See any persuasion happening lately?
I don't. Only cold, hard, pragmatism is what determines which issues get talked about and which get dropped, and only blood-boiling elections that are the barest step above outright war determine which ones are pushed through. The loser can cry about it until the next election, and he can abuse lawfare to the best of his abilities and resources, but he certainly can't use logic and appeals to human decency to convince the winner to not trample him.
True to an extent, but there are plenty of new voting-age kiddos coming in ready to fight about Current Issue. They get it from the media they consume, a never-ending fire. There would have to be a lot of tombstones to change that, any time soon. Which really isn't outside the realm of possibilities.
I saw a lot of persuasion in the last two years. Plenty of people were persuaded to try Trump one more time in 2024, and plenty of people were persuaded to keep him in check in 2026. Think of Obama-Trump voters, they must have been persuaded. Even persuading them to stay home and not vote is itself a kind of persuasion. Trump, in a way, persuaded people not to vote for him. Also, to chalk off entire groups of people as propagandized and kool-aid drinkers of the "never-ending fire" media is just being condescending towards the American people. Young men 18-29 didn't swing 39-points from +14 Republican in 2024 to +25 Democrat in 26 so that you can call them "new voting-age kiddos". And if the Dems fuck it up, I wouldn't be surprised if the population swung again.
I also think there is a tendency to overestimate the intensity of partisan conflicts. "blood-boiling elections" are still double-digit steps in the ladder of conflict before reaching "outright war". And I really don't see many people being trampled by the others. Maybe it's because I'm an immigrant, but America and Americans are quite peaceful and prosperous, and sufficiently high on the Maslow hierarchy of needs that Sayre's Law is being performed at societal scale.
So all the US needs to do is bring back mass starvation, cannibalism, and ritual human sacrifice to put things in perspective. I wonder if voting on who becomes dinner would make politics more collegial.
That’s essentially what happened this election, things got bad enough economically that the choice became easier.
Then explain why Biden didn’t suffer much worse in 2022? The economy was worse then compared to now (was literally a recession — the only reason NBER didn’t call it a recession was due to employment numbers that later proceed to be massively overstated).
Things got bad enough economically because of the president's choices. Gas prices did peak June 2022 but the average voter I'm sure is able to differentiate when it's Russia starting a war then vs America starting a war now.
Gas prices didn’t get to where they were primarily because of Russia in 2022.
Notably, diesel got to where it was largely due to Ukraine’s efforts which seem targeted to get Dems elected. I hope Trump turns off all help to Ukraine and Ukraine gets overrun.
What factors about gas prices that the average voter would have linked to Biden and therefore punished him in the 2022 midterms for?
Ukraine is fighting an existential war with a nuclear power, if I was in charge of Ukraine I would do the same. Maybe if Trump was a better diplomat or his administration has better expertise in a strategic sense, they could have maintained relationships with Ukraine, be in the know, and asked/negotiated so that Russian refineries be hit after the midterms. Ukraine isn't in the game to help Trump, Ukraine is in the game to help itself. If Trump turns off all help and let Ukraine gets overrun, he will go down as the US president that let the re-emergence of Russia. Add in the unfolding blunder with Iran and what is there except to laugh.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link