site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   4926 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 9, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

They had a hard time telling their best and brightest female agents to go and sleep with terrible people so they could be in a position to steal secrets.

and related to @MayorofOysterville s point

You need someone who can plausibly be introduced to the target, is hot enough to make them forget themselves and seduce them, is controlled/smart enough to get useful information and the hardest part actually agrees to do all this most stunning women have better things to do than be spys/hookers.

Conversely, Stasi and KGB had more success with honeypots because of the inverse. As a side effect of centrally planned economy, intelligence service work was one the high prestige occupation with great benefits in the country (rank, remuneration, housing, access to high-end party stores) and ability to travel (buy Western items that were rare due to central planning). Political indoctrination perhaps helped, but it was one of the materially better things to do.

I don't know how modern China compares.

Granted, my understanding is that honeypots were secondary. Most infamous intelligence coups were due to personal ideological motivation (Kim Philby, Rosenbergs), money (Ames, Hanssen), personal workplace grudges (surprisingly many of the Soviet defectors) or combinations thereof (Stig Bergling).

is hot enough to make them forget themselves

I think this might be counterproductive. I think maybe a 7/10 can fly under the radar, but is still cute enough to get a guy's attention. Then have her do an emotional spearfishing of the target with the equivalent of a psychologist with the target's psychological profile on their lap speaking into their earpiece. She can be whatever the target needs; smart enough to listen to and understand his work, or be comforting while his wife ignores him, show possible acceptance of their fetish etc.

I think that's how we see a lot of these chinese honeypots come through with cute looks rather than stunning looks that would just draw attention ('why are you working in engineering again?'). For the 'hard mode' ones anyway. Pretty easy to drop a superhot escort in at someone's hotel bar and wire up their hotel room.

I don't know how modern China compares.

Apparently the French, Russians, Chinese and practically anyone not from the Western sphere are still running them. The French are doing it... well probably because they're French.

Yeah, my own view is that if you had a very attractive young woman showing up to fawn all over a guy, then the immediate suspicion by his wife and social circle is "gold digger". Whereas attractive but not model-quality younger businesswoman can plausbily be explained "Sorry, honey, have to take a client to dinner" or whatever, and it allows the relationship to build gradually.

You can't just flash your tits at a guy and then go "so anyways what is your top-secret project about?"*, you need to build trust and an emotional connection, and that takes time. He has to believe it's all his idea and it's mutual attraction.

*Well, I'd hope not, but heaven knows it could happen with some.

You can't just flash your tits at a guy and then go "so anyways what is your top-secret project about?"

Pretty sure that's the technique of choice against young Navy/Army guys.

Well yeah, young guys in the military. Just have a pulse is often enough there 😂

I think maybe a 7/10 can fly under the radar, but is still cute enough to get a guy's attention.

...

I think that's how we see a lot of these chinese honeypots come through with cute looks rather than stunning looks

I might suggest a rather different reason for this. "Cuteness" is very psychologically disarming.

I think this might be counterproductive. I think maybe a 7/10 can fly under the radar, but is still cute enough to get a guy's attention.

Yeah, I think few men can resist the attention of a young woman who is cute (but not stunning) and who manifests strong romantic interest in them. Probably it doesn't hurt that a lot of these honeytrap agents are trained to be great in bed.

"Mademoiselle, we would like you to sleep with a foreign politician."

"Already on it! On y va!"

"And listen to him talk about his work."

"Je suis obligée?"

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats