The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
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Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
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I'm socially retarded, if that's the right expression.
Due to combination of poor environment, luck and personal flaws, so far (approaching mid 20s) I had few friends, zero experience in relationships, missed several conventional life milestones and trying to catch up. I'm pretty sure I'm not autistic and not blatantly psychiatrically defective (based on reading WebMD) so it's only a matter of skill and practice to get to a tolerable place, yet...how do I navigate talking about difficult topics, especially myself? Additional challenge - I absolutely loathe having to lie.
I tried to use my strengths to combat my weakness and prepare answers in writing for questions that I anticipate but it's not really helpful. I have seen people gliding awkward questions with effortless grace, but as can be inferred from what I wrote so far, that's not something I can do. One of the first conversations with my classmates in college from some years ago:
Her: "Do you have a girlfriend?"
Me: “no”
Her: did you had one before?
Me: “no”
proceed to an awkward pause
I'm only farther behind now, and I don't know if I could handle conversations like that any better.
That made me think: is telling small lies just social glue that most people are pushed to use, except for eloquent speakers and those who are cool enough as in genuinely-don't-give-a-damn and I'm just crippling myself further?
You've already identified exactly what you need to do. Just consistently put yourself out there into social situations.
There's some good advice elsewhere in this thread. One thing not mentioned yet is to consider your appearance - first impressions really matter. If you haven't already, I'd suggest you load your wardrobe up with Uniqlo and get a haircut. You don't need to aim for stylish, but looking presentable should boost your confidence considerably.
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My recommendation is to watch the first two seasons of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic and also join an in-person Toastmasters group. Those helped clear up my social obliviousness, which is from literal diagnosed autism.
Could you expand a bit on how MLP helped you?
I must admit my impression of connection between watching MLP (well, as an adult male) and social obliviousness is not a positive one, but I also admit there is a heavy selection effect there (in the same way that my impression of people on anti-anxiety medication would likely be them being more anxious than the average person, even if the medication is quite effective).
Certainly. When I first started watching, I was clinically depressed due to the emotional abuse from bad friends. I was also oblivious to many social norms due to autism, and was missing most social instincts most humans have.
The show helped me in three big ways:
Depression: I found joy in once again watching a well-written adventure sitcom akin to DuckTales or TaleSpin which I’d grown up with. Most episodes were slice-of-life, some were adventures. Mostly it’s a comedy, but there is genuine drama. It’s an ensemble show, with one character as ostensible lead but not as the focus of the majority of episodes. Each main character has goals, fears, quirks, and strength of character; each one of them was fleshed out enough to be the star of her own show. While I was watching, the depression lifted; it was like microdosing ecstasy, from what I hear. The depression lifted enough for me to finish my college degree after four years away from school, and that got me the third best job I’ve ever had, where I worked for the past ten years.
Social instincts: The show touted its philosophical core, The Elements of Harmony, five relationship virtues no relationship can survive without. Honesty, Loyalty, Kindness, Generosity, and Laughter were what my world revolved around for the next few years. I was able to examine my past and present relationships to see what was lacking, and I found all the bad memories of my bad friends were traceable to an injury to an Element. My family relationships blossomed as I sought to add Elements consciously. Curiously, many of my symptoms of autism disappeared; I think the Elements became a prosthetic set of instincts to replace what I’d been oblivious to.
Social norms: The show featured inherently silly people, in the form of small and colorful horses, in a generally realistic rural town modeled after Ohio. They had to deal with jobs, groceries, school, free time vs hobbies, small business ups and downs, grad student life, and more. They displayed pretty standard social norms, when they weren’t being silly. It became something for me to model. I planned and ran a really nice graduation party for a friend of mine, and everyone thought it was a huge success. I couldn’t have done it as easily without the show’s guidance.
When I started watching, I never expected to become a hardcore fan. Yet it has been a net positive in my life since that day, and I don’t regret a minute of it.
Thank you for explaining, that makes a lot of sense and I can see how it was very helpful to your situation.
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While I’d recommend staying away from toxic PUA writings, one of the best things I discovering perusing those poison laced tomes was the idea of “agree and amplify.”
Basically if someone is making you uncomfortable or challenging you in some way (like in your example) you confidently laugh it off and make it absurd. For instance, you could reply “oh yeah I’m saving myself for marriage.” Make sure to frame it as a joke.
As others have pointed out, joking isn’t lying! It’s all about tone and body language, watch some modern comedians maybe to get an idea.
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Straight up find a local board game night location and just start meeting people there.
It is probably the most accepting & least intimidating place you could start building these muscles as a socially awkward nerd. If you say something weird, you can play it off as a character you're playing in the game. If shit really hits the fan, you come back next week, it's all new faces and your previous embarrassment is now forgotten. You can go alone or with a friend if you have one. You have have a beer to ease up a little bit. or don't and it still feels welcoming.
As someone who pulls of 'genuinely-don't-give-a-damn' reasonably well....it only works if you are truly that secure. I was at my 'genuinely-don't-give-a-damn' when I had a job that everyone recognized as prestigious and a really attractive partner who I was in a happy relationship with. You can try to fake it, but to the best ones, it comes as a result of high-base permanent external validation. Similarly, I can only pull it of in a circle of people with whom I've built a ton of good will. If you behave like that in front of strangers, that's just being an asshole.
A lie is what you make of it.
You can always reply with a non-answer.
eg: I have dog, and she loves me, does that count? or reply with some apocryphal phrase like "sab moh maya hai" (translated - all attachment is an illusion). Hey! maybe buy me a drink before
You can always reply with a question.
eg: why are you so curious ? What do you think ?
Or an absurd claim that is so blatantly obvious, that is comes across as a joke.
eg: yeah you won't know her, she goes to another school. (or if you are tall), I tried, but women just refuse to date men above 6 feet tall.
(there are far better advanced flirting techniques where you can throw it back at them, but that that's too dating specific, and likely too advanced at your current level)
You don't need to lie. I never lie. EVER. But, that doesn't mean you have to answer with the truth. I used the example you gave, but it applies to all scenarios. Didn't want to be preaching, but took me a few years to learn some of these things. So might as well pass it on.
Good thing is, this is a learned skill. I started off as a freshman who was the university's laughing stock for forgetting my lines and reading them off my hands on stage. Now I meet people who are annoyed when I tell them I work on the backend and not as an MBA consultant. One step at a time.
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I think it's fine to lie about things that shouldn't matter, but it's funny to think what the opposite sex might consider to be in that category. If it were socially acceptable, instead of asking a girl, "Do you have a boyfriend?" a man might ask, "How many boyfriends have you had?" When you interrogate the ends of the bell curve, it seems that women want men that other women want, and men want women that are chaste (but not for them).
So, I think you should lie, but I'm not unaware that, if I want to be consistent, I have to be okay with women lying about analogous things.
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yes, you will have to lie for those conversations, or say stuff like "only pain will come out of this discussion, I don't want to know your past, and you don't want to know mine". Also increase your SMV so that no one would actually expect you to be a virgin. Go to the gym, get good clothes, haircut, etc. etc.
Or:
Her: "Do you have a girlfriend?"
You: "well, it kind of depends on your definition... but I don't kiss-and-tell smirk "
You haven't exactly said you did or didn't have a girlfriend, and now you're letting her imagine wild scenarios on her own. Mystery is always more useful than just saying the truth.
Trying to pull things similar to your example was the cause of some of the most cringe-worthy gaffes in my life, but I see merit in this approach. At least in the workplace or such I think I could get away with coming up with a formulaic joke that implies that the question is unprofessional and out of place, then try to move the conversation elsewhere without waiting for a reply.
ah, true, having high SMV does seem to reduce the cringe factor of all your comments, there is no real escape from the "step 1: be attractive, step 2: don't be unattractive" meme. There's no real solution apart from going to the gym.
The good news is, guys can change their attractiveness far more effectively than women.
Good skin care, grooming and fitness will get you a +2 in points from wherever you are. Add a +1 by catering to a care that has a positive bias towards you. (very lucky if you are white, but staying within your race irrespective of which you are, helps). A 4/10 won't become a 10, but they can become a 7/10. Not too bad.
You gotta work with what you've got, but it is one's first responsibility to make as much progress on Rule #1 and #2 as your constitution will allow.
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