site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 20, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Is there a hierarchy of civic symbols that I am unaware of? If there is, who decided it, and how acceptable is it to resist each one?

Your Betters decided it. Just follow the latest twitter hashtags, and you'd know what you should resist this week.

This is a bad, low-effort post.

Are you just going through every comment on this thread and bitching about your outgroup?

If you've got nothing better to say than "Why are you posting this?" you could refrain from bitching at other people's posts yourself.

Your term "civic" is so loose as to be meaningless, or otherwise is deliberately attempting to smuggle private, sectarian/partisan symbols like the Pride flag in amongst official, general symbols like the Stars and Stripes.

Is there a hierarchy of civic symbols that I am unaware of?

This is obtuse. Of course there are a hierarchy of civic symbols, I doubt you are unaware of such a hierarchy, and that hierarchy is extremely important and dynamic. There always has been, even when civic life was composed of a literal hierarchy of symbolic gods that each had civic meaning. This is understood by the people who have elevated the trans flag to its level of cultural sacredness.

If there is, who decided it, and how acceptable is it to resist each one?

It's called culture- with cult formulating the operative base of the word for a reason.

It stands to reason that the official symbol of the country you're a citizen of is placed higher than a symbol for who you prefer to bang, no?

As far I understand either one can be resisted. Flag burning has been recognized as free speech by the very same courts the American flag represents, but some people seem to believe only one is allowed to be resisted.