site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 10, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

14
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Is everyone who does something bad far-right or far-left? Coming from a debate on Reddit where there was an attempt to label the 21 year old military document leaker far right. This seems to be the new national past time. Any time someone does something bad they need to be placed in one of the two camps. Trans school shooter = far left. Pelosi attacker = far right. Louisville bank shooter = far left.

WaPo has labeled the leaker as far-right because I believe there is a video of him shooting a gun and saying some racists words. I’ve always liked this Barkley quote:

https://newsone.com/2768946/charles-barkley-racism-in-locker-rooms/

Male culture especially younger boy culture likes to say things they’re not allowed to say and tease each other. I don’t think that makes someone far-right. I have multicultural group chats where we do the same thing Barkley describes.

But overall I’m noticing that the media when something bad happens wants to pin it on a side and make them responsible for whatever bad thing happened. My guess on this leaker is he’s just a dumb kid and probably hasn’t even ever voted. Nonetheless media now needs to make one side take responsibility for him which then forces the other side to defend him and increase polarization.

I think some times people do bad things or stupid things without having a political ideology.

You’re way less likely to throw your life away in such a manner if you don’t have any strong beliefs. Call it the Kulak effect. And the nature of big-tent political coalitions is that most strong beliefs are vaguely in one tent or the other. Easy ammunition for

highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric,

AKA the usual culture wars.

Honestly, I’d be willing to bet money that he is in fact far-right. As in “would agree with statements that Republican congressmen would have to disavow.” Alas—if he didn’t expect to get caught, I doubt we will see a manifesto.

He probably shot a gun and said n****. I don’t think that makes him far right. I think that’s relatively common for lower class people to say non approved words

Also no evidence in this specific case was throwing life away. More like trying to boost status.

I’m guessing based on him fitting 4channer stereotypes rather than any specific evidence.

I agree that he probably wasn’t expecting to risk his future. That was more an observation about the kinds of people who end up as domestic terrorists. Fuck Timothy McVeigh.

I mean is 4chan even "far right" exactly? My impression is more like "deliberately offensive and chaotic", I'm not sure the political compass is a good fit for what's going on over there.

/pol/ is definitely right wing and embraces some beliefs associated with the far right(like white nationalism), but you’re right that 4channers would mostly not fit in at a gathering of the rightmost 10% or so of Americans(supermajorities of whom would probably be conservative Christians of one description or other).