This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
But then you’re doubling down on any self-segregation. It’s the same with black-on-black violence: targets are rarely chosen from the general population, but from those close to the perpetrator.
Plus, there’s a difference between accepting other interracial marriages and feeling such attraction yourself.
I gladly accept the "rot" of not having Catholic moralists imprisoning people for distributing condoms. We should be very hesitant to use the police powers of the state to enforce rules at the point of a gun.
The counterpoint is that without a unified set of rules, you cannot build the high trust society that creates high civilization. If I believe that prostitution is just fine, and you don’t, this is a place where I cannot build a bridge. If we can’t agree on the basic shape of our moral life, what we build is not a unified national identity but a series of squabbling tribes each trying to take for itself the benefits available while denying them to everyone else.
Okay. I'll accept Brazil levels of low trust and social cohesion if it keeps the Pope from deciding where my penis goes and if I may put a condom on it. If moral busybodies and hard rejection of live-and-let-live were the glue holding society together, then we'll have to pay that ugly price to keep the government out of my bedroom.
I think his point was that you don’t really have that choice- you have the choice between the pope telling you where you can stick your penis, and woke moralists doing the same thing.
It does seem like the woke have replaced the religious right as America's disapproving schoolmarms. I oppose them both and will maintain a consistent civil libertarian stance.
Though I rather doubt that opposing religious moral busybodies necessarily leads to progressive moral busybodies.
And I very much doubt that woke moralists will ever legally compel me to put my penis in someone I don't like. I'm married and monogamous. Noone can make me have sex with transwomen, etc.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link