This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I always found the blackout thing funny. The average Redditor spend a lot of time on Reddit, and the blackout threats I’ve seen are “we’ll shut down for a few days”. Problem being that such a tack is pre-surrender. Reddit knows it’s a tantrum, and they know it wouldn’t last more than a week. It’s not intimidating in the least. It like a teen saying “I’m mad at you so I won’t talk to you for 3 hours.” Okay. What are you hoping to accomplish here?
My tinfoil hat conspiracy is that this blackout is actually orchestrated by the admins to head off an ACTUAL rebellion/migration.
They start by announcing a ridiculously expensive API cost, they have certain users coordinate a limited blackout and get buy-in from the proles, blackout occurs and reddit "capitulates" by cutting the API price in half. Everybody grumbles but feels like they made a difference, Reddit gets the change it wanted whilst clipping the downside risk of a serious revolt.
More options
Context Copy link
Blackouts are dangerous in that Reddit holds total power over the subs themselves. They can just undo the blackout and throw out the mods and replace them with those who will keep it up.
More options
Context Copy link
It's the same as when Russia or China fly a jet into US airspace or hold military exercises in a disputed area. The point is to make sure that the admins deeply consider the interests and possible reaction of moderators before taking any major action. There is also a not-insignificant effect on the admins' public image. If the community is more loyal to the subreddit moderators than to the admins, then the mods retain the option of moving the community off-site rather than submit to Reddit management (case in point: here). That's why we have these kerfufles every one or two years to remind the peasants that the far-away king cares nothing for you and your family, unlike the local nobles who feed and house you.
The problem being that sometimes you have to actually not be bluffing. And Reddit has seen this stuff with no real exodus several times. It doesn’t scare them because they’re pretty sure that a week or two later they’ll be back in full force. If I threaten to quit 10-15 times and don’t actually quit, it’s not a threat anymore, it’s just you blowing smoke, and it cannot work as a tactic because nobody takes the threat seriously.
More options
Context Copy link
Don't most people on, for example, /r/videos, just watch the videos and never comment, and probably rarely even read the comments? That's quite different than this place. I think it would be extremely difficult for most major subreddits to move off site.
One at a time, yes. As a mass going to something like what Reddit was when Reddit first started, not so much. Reddit is probably the most replaceable of the social medias because it is pretty bad at what it does already, and relies on so much free labor from people on power trips. Not so hard for them to powertrip together to a new startup offering the same low quality service.
More options
Context Copy link
This is what I'm casually keeping an eye out for. The Motte did it. Cringetopia did it. WatchPeopleDie did it. I think a few others have as well. I think the larger subs that are niche, such as PoliticalCompassMemes, have a userbase large enough where they could get by on their own dedicated platform.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Moral commitments are easy to make if all that's required of you is to make some false gesture or token of praise in favor of those like Christian, who are getting screwed pretty hard over this. So long as it involves no permanent or indefinite cost (e.g. 'deleting the subreddit'), I agree with you; it's ultimately meaningless.
I think Reddit's disintegration is long overdue, and this whole issue is just the watershed moment where it all comes to a head. I think it'd be a net benefit if the entire site disappeared tomorrow, as there's no room for nuanced discussion of virtually anything, it mostly just functions as an entertaining echo chamber of sorts; that occasionally pays lip service to 'open-mindedness' and 'free speech'.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link