Hey, I do appreciate some plot and lore and world-building in games. But the formula is (quality divided by quantity).
Ah ok, that is not so inscrutable a position to me, although I am still intrigued - I would be more generous in my appraisal, but your assessments are directionally similar to mine (btw you'll hate the writing in dark descent, but if you like Brigador and XCOM I reckon you'll enjoy the gameplay.) What do you think of roguelikes like caves of qud and dcss? And one out of left field - what's your opinion of the song-writing of David Bowie?
Sorry if it feels like I'm grilling you, but your original post opened my eyes a bit - I had fallen into the wordcel trap of assuming anyone with greater intelligence than me must love words even more than me (deep down I always knew that wasn't the case, I was typical minding). And when I read your post and remembered that that was not the case, I also realised I'd never really tried to see the medium from your perspective (hence my overly reductionist opener).
Southkraut
The rain fell gentlier.
Fruck 2yr ago·Edited 2yr ago
Ah ok, that is not so inscrutable a position to me, although I am still intrigued - I would be more generous in my appraisal, but your assessments are directionally similar to mine (btw you'll hate the writing in dark descent, but if you like Brigador and XCOM I reckon you'll enjoy the gameplay.) What do you think of roguelikes like caves of qud and dcss? And one out of left field - what's your opinion of the song-writing of David Bowie?
Roguelikes I like.
Qud stands out as one with good world-building, which I always like playing for the atmosphere although even then I think the actual texts are somewhat overrated and pretentious.
DCSS stands out as one that's pleasantly streamlined and requires no great investment of time to play but has no plot or world-building to speak of, IIRC.
I have played many roguelikes and I like the genre, but here too good writing is rare. Even though some of them manage unique world-building or an immersive atmosphere, it's rarely down to the words.
As for David Bowie, I can't say. I'm barely able to place his music. Looking up some "best lyrics" of his on google, it seems fairly random. I'd withhold judgement on account of insufficient exposure.
Sorry if it feels like I'm grilling you, but your original post opened my eyes a bit - I had fallen into the wordcel trap of assuming anyone with greater intelligence than me must love words even more than me (deep down I always knew that wasn't the case, I was typical minding). And when I read your post and remembered that that was not the case, I also realised I'd never really tried to see the medium from your perspective (hence my overly reductionist opener).
Going by the standards of the Motte, it's likely that I am not more intelligent than you. Pretty sure I'm at the low end here. But while we're defending our positions - I must say that on account of having little time to play, I am very quick to dismiss any individual game as not worth my time, and so it's entirely possible that my opinions are too negative by default.
Recommendation for David Bowie album: Station to Station. Yes, it's during his Thin White Duke (alleged) fascist heroin chic phase, but it's good music.
To hell with David Bowie - we were just at a pub music quiz and despite the fact that all members of the team had extensively listened to Station to Station, we still got the question "What song has this lyric: It's not the side-effects of the cocaine / I'm thinking that it must be love" wrong.
What the heck? I'm sorry for not replying earlier, I thought I did, I thought I replied yesterday but I guess it didn't take? This has been happening a lot lately.
Anyway, I thought you might like roguelikes, but I would have guessed you'd go stone soup over caves of qud. Caves of qud is so great though, although yeah it is a bit pretentious. Part of the difference here is clearly that I have a much higher tolerance for shlock and pretentiousness.
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Notes -
Ah ok, that is not so inscrutable a position to me, although I am still intrigued - I would be more generous in my appraisal, but your assessments are directionally similar to mine (btw you'll hate the writing in dark descent, but if you like Brigador and XCOM I reckon you'll enjoy the gameplay.) What do you think of roguelikes like caves of qud and dcss? And one out of left field - what's your opinion of the song-writing of David Bowie?
Sorry if it feels like I'm grilling you, but your original post opened my eyes a bit - I had fallen into the wordcel trap of assuming anyone with greater intelligence than me must love words even more than me (deep down I always knew that wasn't the case, I was typical minding). And when I read your post and remembered that that was not the case, I also realised I'd never really tried to see the medium from your perspective (hence my overly reductionist opener).
Roguelikes I like.
Qud stands out as one with good world-building, which I always like playing for the atmosphere although even then I think the actual texts are somewhat overrated and pretentious.
DCSS stands out as one that's pleasantly streamlined and requires no great investment of time to play but has no plot or world-building to speak of, IIRC.
I have played many roguelikes and I like the genre, but here too good writing is rare. Even though some of them manage unique world-building or an immersive atmosphere, it's rarely down to the words.
As for David Bowie, I can't say. I'm barely able to place his music. Looking up some "best lyrics" of his on google, it seems fairly random. I'd withhold judgement on account of insufficient exposure.
Going by the standards of the Motte, it's likely that I am not more intelligent than you. Pretty sure I'm at the low end here. But while we're defending our positions - I must say that on account of having little time to play, I am very quick to dismiss any individual game as not worth my time, and so it's entirely possible that my opinions are too negative by default.
Recommendation for David Bowie album: Station to Station. Yes, it's during his Thin White Duke (alleged) fascist heroin chic phase, but it's good music.
To hell with David Bowie - we were just at a pub music quiz and despite the fact that all members of the team had extensively listened to Station to Station, we still got the question "What song has this lyric: It's not the side-effects of the cocaine / I'm thinking that it must be love" wrong.
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What the heck? I'm sorry for not replying earlier, I thought I did, I thought I replied yesterday but I guess it didn't take? This has been happening a lot lately.
Anyway, I thought you might like roguelikes, but I would have guessed you'd go stone soup over caves of qud. Caves of qud is so great though, although yeah it is a bit pretentious. Part of the difference here is clearly that I have a much higher tolerance for shlock and pretentiousness.
CoQ has a unique setting whereas DCSS is entirely generic. I do prefer the straightforward gameplay in DCSS, but not enough to offset Qud's merits.
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