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PaperclipPerfector  8mo ago (text post)   2424 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for September 1, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I forgot how god damn fun the series Cradle by Will Wight is. Something about the cultivation/progression fantasy genre just really speaks to me, inspires me in a way other fiction doesn't do often enough.

On the non-fiction side it's rarer to find a fun book, but I remember really liking Moonwalking with Einstein, where a journalist learns to become a memory champ.

What are some of the most fun things you've read, fiction or non fiction?

Lmao, why is everyone talking about this progression fantasy ? I found it peculiar when ZeroHPL said he started an unfinished xianxia novel about Barron Trump...

Although I'm guessing a few of the longer-running fantasy series I've re-read over the years qualify.

Dresden files is pretty entertaining if a bit too American. (even the hellish villains play relatively nice and fair). The Alex Verus series is somewhat similar, but the enemies are, for a change, refreshingly 'normal' and behave as badly as people would if given unlimited power.

Tbh I liked it more - Dresden Files was not intended as a series, with Verus I'm fairly sure there was a plan from the start so it fits together more neatly. And it also has a plausible mechanism for why the protagonist survives all these tough fights - his brand of magic allows him to see short-term futures. The only infuriating thing is why is he poor-ish ? If I could see short-term futures I'd first get banned from all the casinos and then start trading stocks. Dealing with whatever would be a lot easier with half a platoon of very well paid special forces veterans on retainer.

Come to think of it, most western examples of the genre seem to involve dubious pacts with unholy powers or doing extremely unadvisable things with dangerous magical artifacts out of sheer desperation.

Dungeon Crawler Carl is the absolute best page turner I’ve ever read, it’s a litRPG. It is kind of progression fantasy because the MC levels up and gets a lot stronger, but I’d say the focus is a lot more on the MC’s clever plans than the MC unlocking new powers to annihilate enemies with. The MC is usually behind the power curve in raw power but more than makes up for it in cleverness and utility.

Progression fantasy is my guilty pleasure and I've read a truly shameful amount. So clearly I enjoy the subgenre (and the adjacent ones).

Yet I struggle to find any redeeming quality of DCC. IMO it's got all of the weaknesses of the genre and none of the strengths.

I know there's no accounting for tastes, but DCC seems to be one of the more popular series and I really can't wrap my head around why.

Mind trying to tell me what you found enjoyable in it?

First, I enjoy the creative fight scenes. From the first action where Carl panicking kills a bunch of goblins trying to kill him in a weird scrap vehicle, the fights are pretty creative and better than just two people punching or throwing fireballs at them.

Second, I liked the world building. There’s a lot of mystery about how exactly the wider universe and the dungeon crawl work, and I like reading more about it.

Third, I like all the characters- they have imo realistic personalities and are all fighting hard to survive.

Ultimately I like reading it because it’s a page turner, I have no idea what’s going to happen next in the plot but I know whatever it is, it’s going to have lots of action and be satisfying.

What I don’t like- I don’t mean this as a criticism, just parts that other people love I don’t consider a real draw. I don’t think it’s particularly funny. There are lots of jokes, but they never make me laugh, they more add a sense of grimness to the setting that the death game world is just entertainment for aliens. And I don’t think it’s really very progression fantasy-y. Earlier I said that the fights were better than just throwing fireballs, but it is missing that certain satisfaction that comes from the MC going from shooting sparks from their fingers to blowing up city blocks with a wave

Last angel was a ton of fun. Not art, fun.

I’ve previously shilled for Thunder Below, a kickass submarine memoir.

And I can provide a variety of fanfiction recs that are hilariously, deliriously fun. I probably have, if you peruse the /r/rational recommendation threads. There’s something about a cracked premise that just skips over the part where you need suspension of disbelief, making it easier to get immersed in a familiar world.

And I can provide a variety of fanfiction recs that are hilariously, deliriously fun.

And yet you have not, taunting us with your hoarded knowledge. Is this the act of a friend?

Is there a particular genre or setting you have in mind? I didn’t just want to open the floodgates.

Just wanted to say that I finished the first book of Last Angel this weekend. Thanks much for the recommendation!

Naruto? Harry Potter? I dunno, hit me with your best shot.

...Honestly, I just love fanfic. I love the weird passion projects people put into it, and I love the guilty pleasure aspect where the authors tend to optimize for raw appeal. All entertainment is manipulation, but I think I appreciate the honesty of fanfic. People write what they want to read.

I already checked out Last Angel, looks like my jam!

A Practical Guide to Evil is a great deconstruction of fantasy. 12 Miles Below is an action-packed sci-fi progression fantasy. Super Supportive is supposedly a book about superheroes but really takes a turn--I'd call it more of a modern fantasy story. The Game at Carousel is a horror movie litRPG.

All highly recommended, those are the first things that come to mind when you mention fun.

+1 on the 12 Miles Below rec. It was one of the best progression fantasy books I've read in awhile. The pacing was superb and the writing was as good as progression fantasy gets (low bar, but still).

Have any other recommendations for someone with the following tastes?

  1. Decent writing
  • I'd say something like at least highschool level and with at least some attempt made at proofreading
  • Sadly, it seems less than 25% of the books pass this bar.
  • If I have to read another book that includes the dreaded "As you know..."
  1. Novelty
  • I've read probably 100 progression fantasy books. I don't need to read yet another inferior Cradle clone.
  1. Respectful of reader/subject matter
  • None of the writers in this genre are skilled enough to pull off breaking the 4th wall
  • Similarly, their attempts at "humor" usually are so bad they break any immersion.

As an aside, having a genre with many non-native speakers and authors I imagine are under the age of 15 does lead to some unintentionally funny situations. Earlier this week my girlfriend and I had a good laugh at a MC applying a tourniquet to his neck because his head was bleeding :)

Earlier this week my girlfriend and I had a good laugh at a MC applying a tourniquet to his neck because his head was bleeding :)

LOL, my wife just had a first aid training and they emphasized like 10 times in the training that you're not supposed to do exactly that. We laughed like "who thinks that's a good idea?" but apparently enough people think that way for it to be in the training.

Here are some books I've somewhat recently enjoyed:

litRPG

Great litRPG Isekai. Really slows down about halfway through but I'd say is still a good read.

  • Dungeon Crawler Carl

Possibly the best litRPG. Good humor but still very high stakes.

  • Double Blind

System apocalypse litRPG, well-written so far with a ton of good subterfuge.

  • Dawn of the Void

Another system apocalypse. I liked this one because it focused more than most tend to on the logistics of the apocalypse. Lots of work trying to save civilians from monsters, organize systems, create strongholds, etc. The ending was a tiny bit rushed but still very satisfying.

  • Primal Hunter

Pretty much just fight popcorn. There are never any real stakes or character growth, but the fights are fairly good and the setting is pretty cool. Good story to waste time on.

Progression Fantasy
  • Mother of Learning

Classic time-loop fantasy story, a must-read in the genre imo

  • The Hedge Wizard

Good progression fantasy, no surprises here but it's reasonably high-quality. Overall entertaining enough.

  • Nameless Sovereign

Currently reading this one, it's pretty good. I'm not a big fan of cultivation but this story does a good job of focusing on the characters and the actual plot, rather than just thousands of pages of endless fighting to obtain the Supreme Heavenly Qi Mastery Shadow Demon Technique Ultimate Blood Pill #318132.

Other

This story is absolutely fantastic, one of my favorites of all time, and my wife's #1 favorite book. Blurb:

An antimeme is an idea with self-censoring properties; an idea which, by its intrinsic nature, discourages or prevents people from spreading it.

Antimemes are real. Think of any piece of information which you wouldn't share with anybody, like passwords, taboos and dirty secrets. Or any piece of information which would be difficult to share even if you tried: complex equations, very boring passages of text, large blocks of random numbers, and dreams...

But anomalous antimemes are another matter entirely. How do you contain something you can't record or remember? How do you fight a war against an enemy with effortless, perfect camouflage, when you can never even know that you're at war?

Welcome to the Antimemetics Division.

No, this is not your first day.

  • Anything by Wildbow

This guy writes some really great web serials. Worm is a classic superhero deconstruction story, probably the best one out there. Pact does the same to urban fantasy. It's a bit rougher but IMO the setting is just fantastic. That's continued with Pale, which has its own issues but is probably better written. Twig is a standalone biopunk story that's also quite good.

Wow, this list is fantastic! Way more than I could've hoped for. I've read like half them already which means that there is more than enough here for me to waste an embarrassing amount of time on.

Let me know if you'd ever like some recs and I'll return the favor.

Glad you like it! I'd love to hear what you think about them. I'd appreciate some recs too; if it's a long list though then maybe the Friday thread would be a good place to put it so that others can benefit from it too.

+1 on the 12 Miles Below rec.

I enjoyed 12MB, but mostly because of the unique setting. The protagonist lucks into all the things that give him power progression, as opposed to planning, training, or using his own unique cleverness to problem solve. IIRC, despite being characterized as a brainy engineer, his major contribution to his own success is using a few Bash commands.

While I would disagree that he is that helpless, I actually think this one of the better aspects of this story.

Most MCs in progresssion fantasy fall into one of two tropes:

  1. Hardest worker/never back down (this often makes little sense given how growth & power is exponential. If progress was that linear many more people would be grinding, but I digress)
  2. Boy genius. Sometimes this works, but often it is the redditor meme: “In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.”

so it is nice to see something a bit different.

12MB is definitely a much slower burn. Rather than a chapter of being worthless (or just a paragraph in many Isekais), the character is weak for almost all of the book. Weak in terms of power and weak in terms of decision making. He is very much an imperfect character who makes stupid decisions that have heavy costs. I personally like this aspect because it makes the progression feel more meaningful. I don't want to praise the pacing too much since it is still just the first book and there are still plenty of ways the author could ruin it.

Cool I'll check out practical guide to evil, it's finished! Woo

It's super long (which may be a plus or minus to you) and sometimes drags a bit, and everyone is in love with the protagonist, but if you can get past that it's a ton of fun and has lots of interesting ideas and good payoffs. Looking forward to hearing what you think about it!

I had to look up what the cultivation/progression fantasy genre is. Don't think I've read much of it, if ever. But I like the idea of it! I see that it's someone's tied into Buddhist philosophy? Do you know of any good books in this genre where Buddhism and awakening is central? I've already read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse.

Maybe some of the Chinese works are tied to Buddhism because cultivation is basically a Chinese genre, but it’s really just “junk food” books that are about really bad ass protagonists getting super powers and fighting and getting more super powers. I enjoy the genre but I wouldn’t recommend it someone who wants more stuff like Siddhartha lol

Closer to Dragonball Z in book form than to Hesse, got it. :P

Exactly

If you like self-reference and logic (and who doesn't, really?) Gödel, Escher, Bach is a lot of fun.

Eh, I am actually sick of self-reference and logic. Spend most of my life getting high on the philosophy and logic supply, and I'm realizing there is far more human experience outside of that framework that I've been totally missing. Scientific rationality is great and all, but it's not even close to everything out there.

I love the progression fantasy genre. Oddly I couldn't get into cradle. I'm usually concurrently reading a half dozen or a dozen online web serials in that genre.

I'd highly recommend "Mother of Learning" if you liked cradle. If you've already read that one, maybe try Threadbare for something out of left-field that might tickle your fantasy progression itch.

By the way, "Mother of Learning" author wrote 3 "alternate-universe" chapters for it and started a whole new series, the first chapters of which hooked me hard: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/71045/zenith-of-sorcery

@TheDag

I did see that they started a new series, I have been trying for as long as possible to hold off on reading it, so I can binge as much as possible when I finally break.

Loved mother of learning. I might check out Threadbare next if it's finished, but I'm allergic to unfinished series. Burned too many times.

I'd say its finished. There was a feeling at the end of the story that protagonist's story had been told and things were mostly nicely wrapped up. But that there was still a bigger world out there within the story, and maybe the author could come back later and tell more tales within the same world.

Over the years I have grown a skill to find my own stopping points in web serials. Usually at a point where "too much is fucked" for the author to ever recover in a satisfying way, or "enough is wrapped up" that I can tolerate a few dangling storylines for the sake of a feeling of completeness. But this skill wasn't necessary for threadbare.

Want to give a few examples of web serials you chose to finish reading?

I generally just read until it's done or until I lose interest. Dangling plot threads don't keep me going long at all--bad story quality is sufficient to kill any lingering curiosity I might have had.

The only time I can think of where I failed at this was Mark of the Fool. I kept reading for hundreds of chapters after I should have stopped because the eventual destination of the plot seemed so interesting, and the manner in which its quality dropped so much harder to notice than is typical.

Mark of the fool is one. Defiance of the fall. Primal Hunter I might stop reading. Sylver Seeker I stopped. I've gotten close to putting down millennial mage and chaotic craftsman worships the cube.

It's hard to think of stories in this category cuz I'm optimizing for being able to forget the story and be done with it. So I typically don't remember them unless they are always at the top of the fictional list on royal road.

Over the years I have grown a skill to find my own stopping points in web serials. Usually at a point where "too much is fucked" for the author to ever recover in a satisfying way, or "enough is wrapped up" that I can tolerate a few dangling storylines for the sake of a feeling of completeness. But this skill wasn't necessary for threadbare.

This is actually why I don't like webnovels for the most part, compared to more traditional fantasy series. While they are fun and well written a lot of the time, it irks me to no end when a story just kind of fizzles out because the author didn't know where to go with it.

Fair enough, but I think I've come to realize that is the main thing I enjoy about web serials. If the author doesn't know where they are going, you don't know either! Or maybe even more fun, you can guess where the author could go, tell them, and have it go there!

Goes back to that post I wrote last month about indie vs popular:

https://www.themotte.org/post/587/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/121337?context=8#context

Anyways, Threadbare is a more polished story, but it came out of that weirdness that exists in online serials of throwing crazy ass ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks.

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