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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   29318 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 2, 2023

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There seems to be an idea around many open discussions forums that the left has captured many cultural institutions. This perception seems so persuasive because certain leftist thinkers coined the idea.

While it’s undoubtedly true that many major institutions lean left, it’s also a convenient dodge from the right wing or conservative side in the culture war allowing them to avoid self criticism. In fact it seems that almost any time folks question why right wing values are not more represented in popular culture, the knee-jerk response by conservatives is that the left has captured institutions, so there’s no hope. When the reasonable point is asked as to why this state of affairs can’t be broken by right wing institutions or a similar capture by the right wing, I haven’t seen a good answer.

How has this state of affairs come to be the default? Why did the right lose institutions, and why is there so little discussion about how they can realistically take them back?

Most leftists - ie. people who would generally share Rudi Dutschke's principles - would consider the "long march of the institutions" a failure; ie. socialists went to the universities and then institutions, but then the institutions considered them, leading to them implicitly or explicitly renouncing their socialist principles.

Also, one of the reasons why the left appeals to cultural producers, university workers, media types etc. is simply that the (conservative) right has been intent on turbo-shitting on these institutions for a long time. I personally know moderate or somewhat right-aligned university types who have grown to despise the right for automatically going "Oh, you're a university lecturer and thus automatically a commie, that explains it" when they disagree with the right-wingers even mildly, and journalists who got continuously flamed by antivaxx right-wing conspiracists whenever they wrote anything about Covid, even if it was neutral or lock-down critical but not in the "correct" way.

Sure, right-wingers usually reply to this by saying that the left-wingers in those institutions started first and they're just responding, but it's still always a two-way street.

Most leftists - ie. people who would generally share Rudi Dutschke's principles - would consider the "long march of the institutions" a failure; ie. socialists went to the universities and then institutions, but then the institutions considered them, leading to them implicitly or explicitly renouncing their socialist principles.

The problem with this idea is that economics is no longer the defining characteristic of being a leftist. You could be a literal Stalinist, but if you don't update your cultural ideas to the latest package, you're "far right". Sure, the left wingers that primarily cared about their economic ideas got shafted hard, and their march through the institutions failed, but the march of the cultural left has been a clear and overwhelming success.

Sure, right-wingers usually reply to this by saying that the left-wingers in those institutions started first and they're just responding, but it's still always a two-way street.

Your logic seems circular here. In order to argue that the left appeals to cultural producers, you cite cultural producers trying to appeal to the left, as they are supposedly representing the right. This might be the right way to do it, but it's predictable that it will generate a backlash, even Moldbug got shat on when he did that with his "Hobbits vs Dark Elves" thing.

The second problem is that it's not even about "they started it". If your theory was true, there'd be a symmetrical backlash of cultural producers against the left, because they also get turbo-shitted-on, whenever they mildly disagree with the leftwing zeitgeist (see: Angela Nagle, Freddie deBoer, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, the entirety of TERFdom).

Your logic seems circular here.

It describes a circular tendency. The cultural producers/media types and right-wingers attack each other and grow further apart from each other in a circular motion. The right-wingers just seem to almost automatically ignore their own role in this development, just pretending that their comments are harmless screaming into the void and change nothing.

(see: Angela Nagle, Freddie deBoer, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibi, the entirety of TERFdom).

All of these, expect arguably DeBoer, have moved rightwards, in large part due to attacks on them by the leftists.

It describes a circular tendency. The cultural producers/media types and right-wingers attack each other and grow further apart from each other in a circular motion. The right-wingers just seem to almost automatically ignore their own role in this development, just pretending that their comments are harmless screaming into the void and change nothing.

So let's imagine an alternative world where the right wing base smiles an nods when someone like Moldbug tells them they are just hobbits who need to be ruled over, and they need to forget about fighting for hobbit things like abortion bans. The only way this results in the views of the right wing base being better represented among cultural producers, is that the entirety of the right wing base has been moved leftward. Therefore, you cannot use this to explain why right wing views aren't represented in our cultural institutions.

All of these, expect arguably DeBoer, have moved rightwards, in large part due to attacks on them by the leftists.

If moving rightwards refers to who they're friends with, sure, if it refers to their views, I'm not sure I'm buying that. But even if you're right notice how any movement here is limited to specific individuals, while you're explaining the same mechanism being responsible for a shift of entire institutions when it's done by the right.

Therefore, you cannot use this to explain why right wing views aren't represented in our cultural institutions.

I'm not trying to say it's some sort of a complete explanation. It's just one of the things affecting the representation. I mean, it should be an obvious, uncontested point that this sort of a two-way street exists - right-wing actions also lead to a counter-reaction.

But even if you're right notice how any movement here is limited to specific individuals, while you're explaining the same mechanism being responsible for a shift of entire institutions when it's done by the right.

It was you, yourself, who chose to mention specific individuals.

Institutions consist of individuals. If enough individuals within some specific institution are pushed to some direction, that will at least put pressure on the institution to do likewise.

I'm not trying to say it's some sort of a complete explanation. It's just one of the things affecting the representation. I mean, it should be an obvious, uncontested point that this sort of a two-way street exists - right-wing actions also lead to a counter-reaction.

What's the point of posting an explanation that is so incomplete, that you can observe the same phenomenon on the left with opposite results?

It was you, yourself, who chose to mention specific individuals.

But you tried using them to make a point which is unsupportable.

Institutions consist of individuals. If enough individuals within some specific institution are pushed to some direction, that will at least put pressure on the institution to do likewise.

There's a few problems with this. One is that left wing attacks on people seem to have the effect if moving an institution even more to the left, see Evergreen. Then, even if the reaction - counterreaction mechanic had the same effect for the left and the right, not every individual has the same influence in an institution. If the people attacked by the left and move rightwards, but the people making hiring / firing decisions remain hard left, the institution will go even further left.

I mean, it should be an obvious, uncontested point that this sort of a two-way street exists - right-wing actions also lead to a counter-reaction.

It should be, but it isn't. There's little counter-reaction against the left, and nothing significant or lasting. The "counter-reaction" theory is mostly an excuse to advocate the right do nothing.

Institutions consist of individuals. If enough individuals within some specific institution are pushed to some direction, that will at least put pressure on the institution to do likewise.

Or to cut those individuals out (as indeed often happens) or force them back into the fold.

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