naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Human beings have an instinct that makes them lash out violently against oppression, real or perceived. If it were possible to eliminate this instinct through genetic engineering, would it be worthwhile to do so? Would the Palestinians be better off if they were engineered to feel less emotional in response to discrimination and ethnic cleansing?
No. Striking violently and possibly in a suicidal way to achieve taking your oppressor's life is paramount. Sacrosanct. I would not want to live with a people who have had this urge lobotomized out of them. Indeed I would look at them as lesser beings.
I mean, if we're granting the ability to apply arbitrary genetic behavioral modification to classes of people, I'd rather make all the oppressors uninterested in oppressing...
Anyway, there's a difference between 'would Palestinians in the real world be better off without the instinct now' versus 'Would Palestinians from five hundred years ago be better off today in expectation without the instinct.'
I think this instinct, like a lot of human instincts towards violent retaliation under various circumstances, serves an important evolved purpose as a disincentive towards other people doing those thing in the first place.
An instinct towards psychotically attacking oppressors is an incentive against oppression. Not a strong enough disincentive to stop all oppression, oppression can be really really profitable, but God alone knows how much more oppression there would be in the world and in the history books without that instinct.
Nah, resistance to some forms of oppression, even if irrational from an individual perspective, is very much necessary for the survival of the group. You have to make someone, who wishes to oppress you more than is within the Overton Window, reconsider due to the cost in blood they'd have to pay. Even if you will inevitably lose it they chose to pay it. (Do stop resisting after you're done with the minimum needed to add credibility to your claims, assuming they aren't literally killing you)
While I wouldn't object too hard if it was done for basket cases like Palestine, it's infinitely preferable to just make them as smart as their Israeli cousins, so that integration could be smoother. Can't forget the cultural component and memetic engineering, genius Jihadis cause much of the carnage, the ones who did 9/11 were well educated. The two are inextricable, smarter people can be more pro-social, certainly more productive, and find positive sum ways of solving their problems without resorting to force.
At any rate, I do find making otherwise normal humans into meeker ones distasteful, if you want servants and workers who won't give you lip, just make more robots.
You have perhaps read S.M. Stirling's Drakas books? I don't think breeding Homo servus is really a good idea, whether you're doing it to the Palestinians or the Israelis.
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Notes -
Human beings have an instinct that makes them lash out violently against oppression, real or perceived. If it were possible to eliminate this instinct through genetic engineering, would it be worthwhile to do so? Would the Palestinians be better off if they were engineered to feel less emotional in response to discrimination and ethnic cleansing?
No. Striking violently and possibly in a suicidal way to achieve taking your oppressor's life is paramount. Sacrosanct. I would not want to live with a people who have had this urge lobotomized out of them. Indeed I would look at them as lesser beings.
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I mean, if we're granting the ability to apply arbitrary genetic behavioral modification to classes of people, I'd rather make all the oppressors uninterested in oppressing...
Anyway, there's a difference between 'would Palestinians in the real world be better off without the instinct now' versus 'Would Palestinians from five hundred years ago be better off today in expectation without the instinct.'
I think this instinct, like a lot of human instincts towards violent retaliation under various circumstances, serves an important evolved purpose as a disincentive towards other people doing those thing in the first place.
An instinct towards psychotically attacking oppressors is an incentive against oppression. Not a strong enough disincentive to stop all oppression, oppression can be really really profitable, but God alone knows how much more oppression there would be in the world and in the history books without that instinct.
So again, I think its better to keep overall.
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Nah, resistance to some forms of oppression, even if irrational from an individual perspective, is very much necessary for the survival of the group. You have to make someone, who wishes to oppress you more than is within the Overton Window, reconsider due to the cost in blood they'd have to pay. Even if you will inevitably lose it they chose to pay it. (Do stop resisting after you're done with the minimum needed to add credibility to your claims, assuming they aren't literally killing you)
While I wouldn't object too hard if it was done for basket cases like Palestine, it's infinitely preferable to just make them as smart as their Israeli cousins, so that integration could be smoother. Can't forget the cultural component and memetic engineering, genius Jihadis cause much of the carnage, the ones who did 9/11 were well educated. The two are inextricable, smarter people can be more pro-social, certainly more productive, and find positive sum ways of solving their problems without resorting to force.
At any rate, I do find making otherwise normal humans into meeker ones distasteful, if you want servants and workers who won't give you lip, just make more robots.
More options
Context Copy link
You have perhaps read S.M. Stirling's Drakas books? I don't think breeding Homo servus is really a good idea, whether you're doing it to the Palestinians or the Israelis.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link