naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
And when a bunch of 3rd world refugees get let in to America? America is only safe for Jews for as long as the current iteration of the Republican party survives as a major force in politics. If the left keeps winning, Jews eventually lose out in their own coalition of outsiders and the firing squad comes for them (for being competent and having money). If the current right collapses and re-organizes in a white nationalistic way, the Jews also lose, now being hated by the majority of both major parties. The reason for Israel is for Jews to govern Jews and hold borders for Jews.
The reason why Israel is important to the Israelis is not so much because they can't live anywhere else - Jews live in lots of not-Israel places. It's because they want a country - a place where Jews control the state apparatus and therefore the state apparatus will never be turned against Jews. It's there to be a refuge for Jews that need to flee persecution in other countries (as has indeed happened multiple times).
Do you think the US would be willing to allow Florida to secede and become New Israel?
The specific location of that country is obviously critical to them though -- Jerusalem being a sticky point in terms of where exactly the lines are drawn is maybe the most obvious example?
At this point you'd never get them to pack up and leave (absent massive genocide of course). But the early Zionists like Herzl were insistent on a Jewish state, but flexible about its location. There was discussion about establishing the Jewish state in places like Uganda or Argentina.
Of course that's not what actually happened - the fact that Israel is their ancestral homeland with great religious significance made it obviously the most desirable location. But table stakes for anyone who wants to argue that they should go somewhere else is they need to also explain which country is going to give up territory to them, rather than merely allow them to immigrate.
Many opportunities which would have made the problem more tractable have presented themselves in the past -- now those are passed, and here we are. The current reality is that two (apparently) incompatible groups are claiming the same piece of dirt -- this does not present any obvious solutions.
Yeah, I've been thinking for a while that the MVP (minimum violence product) here would be for the Brits to fire the colonization machine back up, conquer both sides and enforce a democratic one-state solution (with exit rights for those who don't like it). Sadly the time for this has long past as well.
It seems they are going with "reduce their attacks to minor annoyance". While latest Hamas raid was humiliating and many people were murdered it is actually not SO problematic.
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Notes -
I was thinking buy condos in Florida like millions of Jews before them?
And when a bunch of 3rd world refugees get let in to America? America is only safe for Jews for as long as the current iteration of the Republican party survives as a major force in politics. If the left keeps winning, Jews eventually lose out in their own coalition of outsiders and the firing squad comes for them (for being competent and having money). If the current right collapses and re-organizes in a white nationalistic way, the Jews also lose, now being hated by the majority of both major parties. The reason for Israel is for Jews to govern Jews and hold borders for Jews.
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The reason why Israel is important to the Israelis is not so much because they can't live anywhere else - Jews live in lots of not-Israel places. It's because they want a country - a place where Jews control the state apparatus and therefore the state apparatus will never be turned against Jews. It's there to be a refuge for Jews that need to flee persecution in other countries (as has indeed happened multiple times).
Do you think the US would be willing to allow Florida to secede and become New Israel?
The specific location of that country is obviously critical to them though -- Jerusalem being a sticky point in terms of where exactly the lines are drawn is maybe the most obvious example?
At this point you'd never get them to pack up and leave (absent massive genocide of course). But the early Zionists like Herzl were insistent on a Jewish state, but flexible about its location. There was discussion about establishing the Jewish state in places like Uganda or Argentina.
Of course that's not what actually happened - the fact that Israel is their ancestral homeland with great religious significance made it obviously the most desirable location. But table stakes for anyone who wants to argue that they should go somewhere else is they need to also explain which country is going to give up territory to them, rather than merely allow them to immigrate.
Many opportunities which would have made the problem more tractable have presented themselves in the past -- now those are passed, and here we are. The current reality is that two (apparently) incompatible groups are claiming the same piece of dirt -- this does not present any obvious solutions.
Threatening to destroy it and then give it to the side that is willing to leave to save it, is the traditional approach i think.
Or just found a new Christian crusader state so neither Israel or Palestine has what they want.
Yeah, I've been thinking for a while that the MVP (minimum violence product) here would be for the Brits to fire the colonization machine back up, conquer both sides and enforce a democratic one-state solution (with exit rights for those who don't like it). Sadly the time for this has long past as well.
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It seems they are going with "reduce their attacks to minor annoyance". While latest Hamas raid was humiliating and many people were murdered it is actually not SO problematic.
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We could try resurrecting the Schlatter plan.
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