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PaperclipPerfector  7mo ago (text post)   2236 thread views

Friday Fun Thread for October 20, 2023

Be advised: this thread is not for serious in-depth discussion of weighty topics (we have a link for that), this thread is not for anything Culture War related. This thread is for Fun. You got jokes? Share 'em. You got silly questions? Ask 'em.

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I'm 95% certain he's not natty as someone that has barely lifted 100kgs on a bench in my life. A 21yo would have the best chance of anyone, anywhere in gaining muscle mass, but I don't think you can do that without juicing. I'm not against performance enhancing drugs in the private sphere; just against influencers pushing an impossible ideal while pretending they did it without help.

Tbh, I find the 'is he natty' debate to be pretty uninteresting. Does it actually change the ground reality of what he's doing or what he's saying?

Also though steroid use is more widespread than ever, it's still, like, illegal. I don't know how strict things are in the US, but I think people are reasonable to choose not to talk openly about it, if you could get arrested, lose your job or your place at college over it. Sulek has never claimed to be natty, and at the end of the day isn't selling training programs or boutique supplements or diet plans under the promise that others can get the same results. He's not selling anything except himself... But it's worth asking if that makes it better. The pressure to look good, to be big and strong, to earn the respect of other men, to be accomplished and confident and popular are still there.

As I understand it the effect of steroids is so significant that someone who lifts regularly and cares about nutrition can be easily outbulked by a largely sedentary person who takes them.

If that’s true, it essentially means that all the healthy eating, diet, schedule, discipline stuff is invalidated, at least mostly. It’s like a PUA type ‘teaching’ men to seduce women and then it turns out all the women he’s ever been with have been prostitutes, like clearly he’s playing a different game and his advice is theoretical at best.

That’s the root of the sentiment expressed with the facetious “tren hard anavar give up” line, preaching self improvement and a way to be healthy and masculine but actually everything is just the result of illegal and often risky doping.

It depends. To me it makes sense to lift natty for two years and then add in the steroids, but I wonder if that's my Puritan heritage kicking in: why lift natty for two years when you can do the same on gear in 6 months? I think the key is discipline: steroids can be done relatively safely and effectively, but it requires a level of discipline that's best gated by first getting ripped natty.

It's usually a safe assumption that any male influencer that stands out for his hypertrophy is on gear, though. The number of natty men with impressive physiques is far outweighed by the number of men on gear with impressive physiques who want to claim to be natty for cred.

I'd also note that the impressive men on gear still require discipline, healthy eating, and lots of hard work. Gear just makes that (much) easier to display.

That is a wildly incorrect understanding of steroids. They don't work on their own, they make other things you are doing work better, and make it possible to work harder. The Natty or Not debate matters at the extremes, which is to say the interesting parts.

How exactly is it incorrect? There are studies that show that muscle gain on juice without resistance training beats resistance training without juice.

That study is confounded by the effects of water retention in muscles of steroid users. It's also just looking at a ten week period, you're not going to keep gaining muscle sitting on the couch.

Also, the no steroids exercise group managed to not increase their triceps size at all which doesn't really make sense.

This is an overcorrection. Steroids help build muscle at all levels of training. You definitely don't need to be elite for it to matter.

But no one really cares about the non-elite. I don't care if a guy used test to deadlift 405 when he would have achieved the same thing Natty in a few more months.

The idea that roids will cause you to gain significant muscle sitting on the couch is false.

I mean, you personally might not care whether a given person can or can't deadlift 405, or the timeframe he achieves that in - it might matter to him.

My point is that no one deadlifting 405, natty or dirty, influences the discourse.

Speaking as a pathetic failure that deadlifts around 405 myself, we're not just influencing the discourse - we are the discourse. When Sulek or Doucette or whoever gets millions of views (and the money that comes with it), that's not from millions of bodybuilders, and the 'natty or not' debate is not really about the big guy - it's about the envy and anxiety and inferiority of Average Lifter, who wants to know if there's more to being huge and attractive and successful and confident than daily cardio.

Tbh, I find the 'is he natty' debate to be pretty uninteresting. Does it actually change the ground reality of what he's doing or what he's saying?

No it doesn't. I threw a comment out there (while drinking) and I don't really know if he's presenting as natural or not. I don't mean to derail on that front.

and at the end of the day isn't selling training programs or boutique supplements or diet plans under the promise that others can get the same results. He's not selling anything except himself

Fair enough. Seems like the guy is presenting himself in a 'lifestyle' way, as in 'here's me doing meal prep and driving to the gym. What a good session!' Good luck to him.

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