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PaperclipPerfector  6mo ago (text post)   27690 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 23, 2023

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Russia executing own retreating soldiers, US says

Russia is executing soldiers who try to retreat from a bloody offensive in eastern Ukraine, the White House has said. According to the US, some of the casualties suffered by Russia near Avdiivka were "on the orders of their own leaders".

Russian and Ukrainian troops have been locked into a fierce battle for the frontline town since mid-October. Russia is thought to have suffered "significant" losses in this time. Ukrainian estimates put the number of Russian casualties in Avdiivka at 5,000, while the US says that Russia lost "at least" 125 armoured vehicles and more than a battalion's worth of equipment.

Do you believe the primary claim in this article (from the Pentagon)? If so, or if not, why? If you think the claim is a lie, do you think it originates with American or Ukrainian propagandists. If you think the claim is true, do you think Russia’s actions are likely to have a positive or negative effect on Russian troop morale moving forward?

I’m interested in how our prejudices and priors developed over the last year and half of this war - and more generally - affect our judgment when we hear stories reporting by one side like this. What would it take for you to believe or disbelieve the claim?

Update now that I could check the source. C-SPAN at around 15:50.

To pursue that, outcome, in Avdiivka, and elsewhere on the battlefield, Russia continues to show no regard for the lives of its soldiers.
We believe they have suffered thousands of casualties in their effort to conduct this offensive.
Some of them on the orders of their own leaders.
We have information that the Russian military has been actually executing soldiers who refuse to follow orders.
We also have information that Russian, commanders are threatening to execute entire units.
They seek to retreat from Ukrainian artillery fire.
Russia's mobilized forces remain under-trained, under-equipped, and unprepared for combat.
As was the case during their failed winter offensive last year, the Russian military appears to be using what we would call "human wave tactics," just throwing masses of these poorly trained soldiers right into the fight, no proper equipment, no leadership, no resources, no support.
It is unsurprising that Russian forces are suffering from poor morale, given all these conditions.

There don't appear to be subtitles yet, which is totally why none of the outlets copying an AP news release bothered to link to the broadcast. Yeah.

@badnewsbandit It looks like the journalists were accurately representing the statement. Color me surprised.

Fair. Sounds like an "if" between the "threatening to execute" and "they seek to retreat" by the way. I'd say executing for refusing to follow orders and then separately threatening unit level execution if retreating under fire are not "Russia executing own retreating soldiers" present tense happening. It's not like it'd be completely out of character for the peoples involved given Wagner and sledgehammers but still stretching. Avdiivka is a shitshow by all verifiable accounts, the exaggeration and inferences from 'information' are if anything negative value.

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