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I've read the discussion on the destruction of General Lee's statue in Charlottesville in last week's thread. I got the impression that many commenters here are prone to come up with explanations why the official removal of the statue was at least unsurprising or objectively justified from a culture war perspective, and I get that. But it seems they aren't focusing on the palpable difference between legally removing a statue and destroying it in a furnace. Because as far as I'm concerned, it's a big step from one to the other.
I'm reminded of the political transitions that happened in Central Europe in 1989-91, because many local monuments to either Soviet politicians/soldiers or local Communists or Marx/Engels were officially removed as a result. Anyone can correct me if they can, but I think all those new political systems were content with just removing the statues and putting them in "museums", which in most cases basically meant that these statues were put in open-air storage in remote and mostly abandoned memorial parks to just wither away, but not destroying them, cutting them up, melting them down etc. This hasn't even happened to Stalin statues in the Baltic states, for example, even though local anti-Soviet sentiment was definitely the strongest in the entire region, not something to understate. You can still find and visit those statues today.
And in this case, even this relatively close parallel doesn't really work, because it's not like there was a fundamental regime change in Virginia since the statue was erected.
And what happened to Lee's statue certainly cannot be explained by financial considerations either, as I'm sure that whatever arrangement that was on the table for putting it away as a museum piece was cheaper than melting it down in a furnace.
The only fitting parallel that comes to mind is Napoleon ordering captured cannons to be melted down to build a gigantic iron monument in Paris dedicated to the victory at Austerlitz. But again, I'm sure I won't have to explain in detail how that political context was completely different from this, even though I'm aware there are many hardline leftists today who would've preferred the evil Confederacy to be publicly humiliated in such ways back in 1865.
In the end, the only sufficient explanation I can come up with is that local authorities were afraid that Lee's statue, no matter where it were to be placed, was likely to become a site of pilgrimage for right-winger heretics opposed to the culture-warring leftist interpretation of race relations in the US, hence the statue's destruction.
Plus, and this is just pure speculation on my part, I think General Lee was such a perfect personification of the Southern patriarchal ideal of gentlemanliness that he invites leftist hostility like no other figure in US history. Plus, he had the cheek to candidly express views on slavery and the innate characteristics of Africans that are, from a leftist perspective, uniquely horrible, just too painful, and cutting too close to the bone, as they say.
As far as I know, the locals got a say. They didn’t want Lee to hang around. I believe the bronze is going to be used for some sculpture or installation. While I’m sure you will find it low-effort or objectionable, it will still be public art. I think that’s a perfectly valid use of the materials. There’s no statute of statue limitations, and if the current residents (owners? Caretakers?) wanted to melt the statue, more power to them.
I do think the authorities were wary of what you describe. The article also cited a risk of “violence” if the statue were to remain on display somewhere. I imagine they were thinking of white supremacists reclaiming Mr. Lee for Stone Mountain, Dukes of Hazzarding their way over innocent museum visitors along the way. If I’m feeling charitable, they were probably also worried about attracting anti-Confederate vandals.
Your speculation, though, is off-base. Lee is just too removed to merit personal hostility. Can you think of any particularly gentlemanly myths about the guy? All I’ve got is that he joined the Confederacy out of some kind of principled stance; partial credit, but not particularly unique. And I expect my knowledge of historical trivia is a lot broader than the average statue-tipper.
No, sometimes people mean what they say. Lee represents the Confederacy more than he personifies it. Hundreds of thousands died because he, and people like him, chose to stand up for a garbage cause. Nothing personal about it.
I feel like this is a "tell me you haven't actually read any contemporary accounts of the civil war" type moments. I know liberal the liberal tendency is to dismiss or at least deemphasize the role of personal virtue in favor of other factors, but in their memoirs both Sherman and Grant make a point to praise Lee for "leading from the front" and being unusually honest, considerate, and humble for a man in position of high command. Then there are all the (likely apocryphal) stories about his time as a college professor and post-war travels. Finally, there is the simple fact that in the closing weeks of the war and it's immediate aftermath he was one of the more vocal advocates for peace and not turning to insurgency amongst the Southern leadership.
Long story short, I find it notable that both while the war was being fought and for over a century after it's conclusion there doesn't seem to have been anyone on either side who had a negative word to say about the man. Meanwhile from where I am sitting, the demonization of Robert E Lee as the Arch-Traitor and Defender of Slavery (along with the wider confederate statue controversy) seems to have come out of nowhere in the early 00s. Does anything about the timing there strike you as just a tad convenient?
Let's lay our cards on the table.
Do you know how I can tell that you are lying when you claim that there's "Nothing personal about it"?
Because just a few sentences earlier you said " Lee is just too removed to merit personal hostility."
You and I both know that this is about is people like you wanting to express their antipathy for people like me. How can it be anything other than personal?
Imo he clearly meant “nothing personal” to mean nothing personal against Lee. It’s the ideology/Confederacy that he represents (and/or is claimed to represent) that attracts progressive’s ire.
Whether Stalin was an honorable gentleman isn’t too relevant when discussing his statues.
Yes, but Lee is "people like [us]", and as a stand-in, the one being retconned into an Arch-Traitor and Defender of Slavery.
The loogie in the face of southern identity is being hurled at a statue for plausible deniability - the desire is actually for the phlegm to land on anyone who doesn't lay down in front of a giant shit test about the civil war.
That's a Bingo
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