This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Are you going to link the article this is from? It appears to be a comment on this article.
Edit: clarity
If he linked the original post his game would be a little too obvious even for the quokkas on the mod team.
Without this guy, even though (as many, not just you, have noted) he’s a troll, we’d be back to the usual conversations about trans bathrooms, abortion, guns and childhood transition making up 70% of regular threads, and those were in many ways played out discussion topics by the end of the last Bush administration.
Hard nope.
SecureSignals is getting modded for one issue posting, this guy is doing the exact same thing, except dishonestly. Ban for life.
The mods take an extreme light touch with SS, he’s still here years later and still largely single-issue posting, just not exclusively in top-level threads. And the main reason he gets modded is that he makes the same arguments in every Holocaust denial thread but when actually interrogated always disappears when Stefferi or whoever effortposts a quality rebuttal to his arguments and allusions.
This guy, by contrast, is more ‘just asking questions’ rather than making an argument. Obviously it’s still trolling in a particular direction, there’s no doubt about it, but it’s a less objectionable grift than posting propaganda and running away when a decent counterargument presents itself.
I'm not criticizing the mods, I think SS should bite the bullet and post about literally anything else, every once in a while, and if there's no other subject in the world that makes him tick as a human, he should probably take that as a cue to think about his life long and hard.
I'm criticizing you for encouraging JD, when all he's doing is being a dishonest version of SS.
I will.
Situations like this are what ultimately lead to my falling out with Zorba and Trace and they don't seem to have learned anything in the interim. We kept getting into arguments in modmail where they'd be like; You can't just assume that "u/ArgleBargle456 is ban evading because he showed up the morning after /u/ArgleBargle123 got banned." and "Yes /u/soandso is very obviously pushing an agenda and consistently bringing the quality of the conversation down but that's not a reason to take action against them" and I finally ran out of patience. If blatant ban evasion and clearly violating the foundations of the sub are not reasons to mod someone, what is even the point of moderating anyone?
Like you say, this guy's just a less honest version of SS. and as @fuckduck9000 points out, keeping him around is effectively the worst of both worlds.
There's something to be said for "beyond reasonable doubt" when it comes to banning, but posters should err on the side of not feeding trolls, even if that results in some false positives.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link