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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   25652 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 4, 2023

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Back when I was a smug liberal, I used to make fun of FOX News for saying there was a war on Christmas. And in my defense, FOX and Conservatives did a terrible job of making their case (which will become clear later why). I was recently shocked to learn that Hanukkah isn't even an important Jewish holiday. From WaPo :

It's easy to get the impression that Hanukkah is a marquee event of the Jewish year, falling as it coincidentally does right around the time of that other blockbuster December occasion and likewise seeming to revolve around presents, parties and recollections of a miracle long ago. The sense of Hanukkah's importance is further stoked by lively decorations, beautiful menorahs, delectable feasts and even, nowadays, kitschy sweaters and tongue-in-cheek competitions.

But as any rabbi would be quick to explain, Hanukkah is one of the least important occasions on the Hebrew calendar. Unlike major holidays such as Passover, Sukkot and the weekly Sabbath — all of which include extensive ritual requirements as well as prohibitions against work — Hanukkah is categorized as a minor festival whose only real decree is to light candles for eight nights. Everything else is custom or adaptation.

It seems pretty clear that the only reason Hanukkah is even celebrated like an important holiday in Christian countries is because it is close on the calendar to Christmas. From that same article:

That's not to say, however, that all the hubbub around Hanukkah is accidental. Its elevation to its current status in the United States goes back to the 19th century, when rabbis concerned about Jewish children feeling envious of their Christian neighbors realized that Hanukkah could let kids indulge in a joyous occasion around the same time of year. As Jewish historian Dianne Ashton recounts in her book "Hanukkah in America," the holiday's "timing in the midst of the Christmas season offered a way [for people] to perform their Jewish commitment through the holiday's rite and, for a moment, to resolve the ambiguity of being an American Jew."

The of course there is Kwanzaa, which is a made up holiday by Black Activists and the New Left in the 1960's. It literally wasn't even celebrated until 1966. It is a straight up made up holiday that shouldn't even be mentioned alongside Christmas and Hanukkah. I know this is not charitable but to me this is trivially true. I have never seen a single person celebrate Kwanzaa in my entire life and I am in my early 30's and have lived in cities with large black populations. So we can throw out Kwanzaa without any consideration.

That brings us back to Hanukkah, which again, is not an important Jewish holiday. This would be like if Christians in Israel started demanding if a minor random Christian holiday near Passover be given equal standing to their most important holiday. Obviously this is absurd on its face and would never be taken seriously.

I don't want to blame this on "da Jews" because secular gentiles played a role in this as well. In fact, they were probably the biggest drivers of this because I actually know many Jews who celebrate Christmas (more on this later). The argument that they would make is that they want to say "Happy Holidays" is because if you make Christmas a big deal it makes non-Christians uncomfortable. This would be one thing if it was still a very Christian holiday, but the bottom line is that Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday at this point that anyone can celebrate. To give some context for this. the Bay Area town I grew up in had a street that was famous for having an amazing Christmas lights celebration. People would come from all over to see the cool Christmas lights people on this street put up. This area also had a huge Indian population and about a third of the street was Indian by the time I moved. Instead of getting butt hurt about it, they kept up the tradition. Some even incorporated some Indian culture into theirs to make it look pretty cool and unique. Plus, a lot of Jews I know celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday and don't seem to have any problem with it. So I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument that as long as it's just Santa and basic benign Christian decorations that it makes anyone feel uncomfortable. But this is all subjective.

The number one reason why it is ridiculous to say "Happy Holidays" though is that there are literally no other holidays that are important during that time period for any major ethnic or religious group in the US. If it wasn't for Christmas, it would literally not be the "holiday season". It would just be a time close to New Years. There is no reason to say "Happy Holidays" other than to diminish the role of Christianity, even in its most benign and secular form, in the United States. In my opinion, Left wing activists used identity politics (Kwanzaa), "inclusivity", and guilt about the Holocaust and Jews (Hanukkah) to make up a fake "holiday season" so it wouldn't be the Christmas Season anymore. I'd love to see someone counter this, because I really don't see how this isn't more or less 100% true.

And I actually have a much better post I'm working on now about how academia and first wave feminism conspired to create the fake Wicca religion and the modern idea of witches. And if you want a taste, here is a good summary that inspired me: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7tz-PBkF720&ab_channel=GreshamCollege

This would be like if Christians in Israel started demanding if a minor random Christian holiday near Passover be given equal standing to their most important holiday. Obviously this is absurd on its face and would never be taken seriously.

There are two minor random Christian holidays around Passover. The one is Palm Sunday the other Easter.

Literally the second most important Holiday for the Christian goys

Edit: I should have said second most widely celebrated

Easter is the most important Christian holiday. The secular perception that Christmas is more important than Easter is an artifact of secular society widely celebrating (a secular and commericalised version of) Christmas.

For some Christians, sure.

But as a former American Christian it’s definitely Christmas among most American Christians in terms of both religious and secular celebration and emphasis. Revealed preferences and all that.

I am an elderly one legged korean midget woman

Source: trust me, I say so.

Do I really need to somehow demonstrate evidence that I was raised a devout Christian in America?

Anymore than anyone else in this thread, for you to consider my views not simply made up, for some reason?

I’m not exactly making a significant claim here, and elsewhere in the thread there is discussion on how different flavors of Christianity celebrate and emphasize in diverse ways.

The whole of Easter involves the passion of Christ, His crucifixion, His redemption of mankind's sin, and His death, ressurection and eventual assumption. It's literally the point of Christianity, and the core holy-day. In this case I would just say the American Christians who think Christmas is more important than Easter from a Christian point of view are just wrong and have been unduly influenced by the secular popularity of Christmas.

I'm arguing empirical reality, not doctrine; I agreed above that it's almost certainly because of the dang holy men bringing gifts, which meshes nicely with secular Santa and consumerism.

Perhaps my personal experience doesn't generalize, but Christmas also involved more religious emphasis than Easter as well, in my childhood, with special programs and celebrations.

You may be right about most Baptists and non-denominational evangelicals, but I’d say you’re wrong about most Catholics and lectionary-following Protestants. Christmas is preceded by four weeks of preparation and followed by twelve days of celebration (and accompanied by a secular gift-giving celebration that happens at the same time). Easter is preceded by 40 days of preparation and followed by 40 days of celebration. There’s fasting, extra services, “giving up something for Lent….” The difference is that these are much less visible to the outside world, including to the aforementioned Baptists and evangelicals.

Raised Catholic in America, it feels kind of like an apples to oranges comparison. I remember way more church stuff going on around Easter for sure, but I feel like there was more 'energy' around Christmas. Obviously a child's perspective might be skewed what with the gifts but Christmas was the bigger deal for me.

Well, as a Puritan Atheist, I don't consider those Papists and quasi-papists real Christians anyway. /s

Also, I don't know that the length of "preparation" and "celebration" is the best way to compare the relative level of celebration between the two holidays, but the admixture of the secular bits definitely muddies the waters a lot. In a slightly different universe, perhaps the Christian West managed to make Easter a major commercial holiday (beyond mere candy) and so it became far more significant culturally than Christmas across the board.

It's interesting that in the West our winter celebration is so much bigger than our spring/fall/summer ones. The Chinese New Year is on the tail end of winter celebrating the coming of spring, "Greater Iran" has Nowruz in the spring, the Islamic world has Ramadan on a rotating basis, Rosh Hashanah is fall, as is Diwali.

Is it? I think many Christians would say otherwise. Christianity isn't like Judaism where Rabbis can make these decisions for people, especially Protestants.

Christianity isn't like Judaism where Rabbis can make these decisions for people, especially Protestants.

Judaism doesn't have a church hierarchy like Catholicism. Jews famously don't agree on the interpretations of their religious commandments.

According to the Catholic Church, Eaater and Good Friday are #1 and #2. We worship Christ because of his passion, execution, and resurrection. He died and came back so that those who believe shall live.

Any Christian that celebrates Christmas over Easter has missed the point.

I know that but does the average Christian? I'd be willing to bet church attendance is higher on Christmas.

You can take the redditor out of reddit, but you can't the reddit out of the redditor.

You think the average Christian knows anything about Christianity? I can assure you that they don't.

More comments

Easter is generally a bigger religious holiday than Christmas, yes. Of course Christmas is a bigger deal to Christians who don't actually go to church.

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