This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Ackman's turn has been pretty remarkable. He's posting memes from EndWokeness on Twitter now.
Until recently, we saw most billionaires give lip service to diversity and other progressive shibboleths. They'd give some sort of weak pushback like "As a lifelong Democrat, I'm concerned by..." but they'd never actually fight the powers that be.
Now, people like Ackman have joined the other team. They are saying, explicitly, that wokeness is bad, academics are racist, and we need to vote for actual Republicans to change things.
Billionaires have never been fans of wokeness ,as they know if wokeness is carried out to its eventual end, they will be among the first to be shaken down. I think Ackman has voiced sentiment that many others share but afraid to voice. Zuckerberg is not a big fan of the woke either.
The first I've heard. Didn't he donate massive amounts of money towards helping Democrats win in 2020 by hook or crook? That's despite the fact that they hate him and that previous progressive donations have blown up in his face.
I'd love to be pointed in the direction of anything anti-woke coming from the Zuck.
As an insider, wokes in the company had been railing against Thiel being on the board for years and years. Zuck always stood up for him.
Zuck would go along with diversity initiatives but was never the one pounding the drum. The most I can remember him being fired up about woke politics is when somebody crossed out “Black Lives Matter” on a chalkboard.
COVID censorship, even inside the company, was absurd though. Mass deletions of comments for not citing “reputable” sources, for which the definition of reputable was secret and somehow didn’t include university professors.
I got the impression that Zuck is a pretty standard Silicon Valley paternalistic tech idealist.
More options
Context Copy link
Protection money is a thing. The left hate him because he has not done enough to stop alleged misinformation on the platform, and also his denial of Facebook's role in affecting the 2016 election..
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
While I am not sympathetic to people seeing the sinister hand of Da Joos everywhere, there are some patterns that are real, and one I have seen lately, of which Bill Ackman is a notable example, is of prominent Jews who were full-throated supporters of DEI and wokeness suddenly being shocked, shocked, to discover that Palestinians > Israelis/Jews. This shocking discovery causing them to suddenly reevaluate their allyship and leading to hand-wringing articles by Jews about how they are walking away from The Left/the Democratic Party, etc.
I don't have a lot of respect for people who suddenly do a heel-face turn because their ox got got.
Ackman was optimistic about Trump in 2016 and supported him https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/11/bill-ackman-president-trump
Business people tend to flip-flop though or hold contradicting opinions. Mark Cuban is seen as woke but he used to be more libertarian or even conservative https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/12/mark-cuban-would-love-to-be-a-republican-if-it-werent-for-the-republican-party/
More options
Context Copy link
I'd still be happy they were shooting in the proper direction... if they kept shooting in the proper direction rather than returning to the fold as soon as their ox get a reprieve.
Is their ox gonna get a reprieve? Seems like the respectable center left which goes "ok, discriminate against whites but make an exception for Jews no seriously make an exception for Jews" has lost control of the narrative.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Nope. Ackman has decided to back a full-on DEI supporter for President. His "wokeness is bad" stuff was all tactical, perhaps to get the help of Rufo. Now that he's got the head he wanted, he's back to full DEI (provided his people are on the correct side of the progressive stack).
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link