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pedophile

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Pedophilia/sexual interest in children (single strongest predictor)

Any paraphilia, eg exhibitionism, crossdressing (almost as strong a predictor)

Lifestyle instability, eg rule violations, poor employment history, and reckless, impulsive behavior

Prior sexual offenses

So some "duh" factors(obviously pedophiles are more likely to sexually offend against children than the general population and obviously the factors that make recidivism more likely for all crime apply here) and characteristics strongly associated with transgenderism/LGBT?

Listen, at some point society is going to have to confront that heteronormativity is a good thing. That doesn't mean any individual non-heteronormative person is a pedophile. But it does seem that "having LGBT-typical sexual interests is a risk factor for sex offender recidivism but not for recidivism more generally" is a pretty major argument against queer theory.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

There’s a principle here of never letting a liar define the terms, and never letting a bad guy have an inch of ground lest he take a mile. There’s a heavily tribal “scissor statement” embedded in attempting to describe the situation, and Joyful’s question may be a disgust response to the concept of transgenderism-as-divisive-social-lie as much as to transgenderism-as-ugly-behavior.

Having said that, I’m personally fine with the OP having described this Sarah Nyberg pedophile consistently with the child-luster’s pronouns of identification. I don’t need to know the “deadname” of the kid-unsafe transwoman or be constantly reminded of fundamental lies via the narrator’s pronoun choice. The post is all about the tribal lines and about one side protecting a dress which hides an erection for little girls; I don’t need to see a humiliation ritual of that dress being verbally ripped off in every sentence.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I'm not entirely sure that's the reasoning behind the original comment. This site has quite a few people who seem unwilling or outright incapable of speaking about trans people without words or a tone of deep disgust. Note that joyful didn't say "Why do you use the pronoun she for a male?", but rather "why do you use the pronoun she for a male pedophile?" This should increase the likelihood of this being a disgust response in our eyes.

But even we granted that this is just about objective reality, it wouldn't have an impact on pronoun policy. There is no inconsistency between your view and the idea that one should respect the pronouns of others.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

With parentheses unfolded:

In my humble and likely heterodox

  • (for now)

opinion, the proper terminology for what a "normie" might call a "pedophile" is "anti-agecuck"

  • (as almost all men, due to basic biology, are inevitable sexually attracted to women under 18 not uncommonly and even pre-pubertal girls
    • (due to humans being a K-selected species, meaning it is natural to develop romantic/sexual attachments to partners in anticipation of their fertility to have a pre-built pair bond to enhance the nurturing of eventual offspring once fertility is achieved)
  • and thus those who allow feminist age of "consent" mandates
    • (which were the first major "win" of the modern feminist movement)
  • are inevitably cuckolded by younger, more enlightened/freer men, or just more immoral men
    • (guys who believe in the traditional narrative about the alleged irreparable harm that results from youth-adult sex but just don't care, who often tend to be non-White as conviction rates for child "molestation" show, giving this cuckoldry an interracial element)
  • , thus leaving "pedophiles" to basically exclusively oppose this
    • (again, interracially-flavored and anti-White)
  • cuckoldry)

, "non-agecuck"

  • (for the same reasons as before)

, or "possessor of natural masculine sexuality"

  • (due to there being little record of these modern feminist age-based attraction taboos in more natural times)

. But until society has been freed from the grip of a memeplex I might deem "Judeo-feminist quasi-matriarchalism" or "talmudic-demonic-feminist quasi-matriarchalism", if I had to pick a phrase, enough to properly appreciate these terms, "pedo" is necessary for understanding. Thus "pedochad" is always an acceptable term as well.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

In my humble and likely heterodox (for now) opinion, the proper terminology for what a "normie" might call a "pedophile" is "anti-agecuck" (as almost all men, because of basic biology, are inevitable sexually attracted to women under 18 not uncommonly and even pre-pubertal girls (due to humans being a K-selected species, meaning it is natural/reproductively optimal to develop romantic/sexual attachments to potential reproductive partners in anticipation of their fertility to already have a pre-existing pair bond available to enhance the nurturing of eventual offspring once fertility is achieved) and thus those who allow feminist age of "consent" mandates (which were the first major "wins" of the modern feminist movement) are inevitably cuckolded by younger, more enlightened/freer, or just more immoral men (guys who believe in the traditional narrative about the alleged irreparable harm that results from youth-adult sex but just don't care, who often tend to be non-White as conviction rates for child "molestation" show, giving this cuckoldry an interracial element), thus leaving "pedophiles" to basically exclusively oppose this (again, interracially-flavored and anti-White) cuckoldry), "non-agecuck" (for the same reasons as before), or "possessor of natural masculine sexuality" (due to there being little record of these modern feminist age-based attraction taboos in more natural, less artificially estrogenized times).

But until society has been freed from the grip of a memeplex I might deem "Judeo-feminist quasi-matriarchalism" or "talmudic-demonic-feminist quasi-matriarchalism", if I had to pick a phrase, enough to properly appreciate these terms, "pedo" is necessary for understanding. Thus "pedochad" is always an acceptable term as well.

"MAP" isn't necessarily inaccurate per se but I reject all woke newspeak right off the bat, and it is unfortunately that.

Note: As usual all of my posts are generally/almost always unironic (minus an allowance for a reasonable amount of rhetorical irony same as any other poster here might apply, but not in my fundamental perspective), good faith attempts to inject a perspective that I believe most are afraid to acknowledge into the conversation, and this one is included. (Including this disclaimer since I haven't posted here in a while and I had problems with people thinking I'm not serious even when I posted regularly.)

Edit: Copying the below for the reader's convenience, but updated:

With parentheses unfolded:

In my humble and likely heterodox (for now) opinion, the proper terminology for what a "normie" might call a "pedophile" is "anti-agecuck"

  • (as almost all men, because of basic biology, are inevitable sexually attracted to women under 18 not uncommonly and even pre-pubertal girls
    • (due to humans being a K-selected species, meaning it is natural/reproductively optimal to develop romantic/sexual attachments to potential reproductive partners in anticipation of their fertility to already have a pre-existing pair bond available to enhance the nurturing of eventual offspring once fertility is achieved)
  • and thus those who allow feminist age of "consent" mandates
    • (which were the first major "wins" of the modern feminist movement)
  • to influence their sexual/mating behavior are inevitably cuckolded by younger, more enlightened/freer, or just more immoral men
    • (guys who believe in the traditional narrative about the alleged irreparable harm that results from youth-adult sex but just don't care, who often tend to be non-White as conviction rates for child "molestation" show, giving this cuckoldry an interracial element)
  • , thus leaving "pedophiles" to basically exclusively oppose this
    • (again, interracially-flavored and anti-White)
  • cuckoldry)

, "non-agecuck"

  • (for the same reasons as before)

, or "possessor of natural masculine sexuality"

  • (due to there being little record of these modern feminist age-based attraction taboos in more natural times)
Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I agree that, for everyone’s good, we could as a culture draw clearer boundaries about appropriate and inappropriate behavior with children.

We tried that; it's already been twisted into "man interacting with his own children in public is obviously a pedophile". Of course, this conversely gives women freer reign to perpetrate molestation, and if the [overwhelmingly-female] education system's obsession with sex/gender stuff is any indication they're taking full advantage of that privilege.

I am simply astonished that apparently someone can try his hardest to fuck a child, and everyone will just… act like it didn’t happen.

[At the population level]

Why? Out of sociobiological necessity, the adult gets the benefit of the doubt by default because they are the adult. Children are subordinate property that usually turn out good enough no matter what we visit upon them- besides, there are plenty of times when parents will place their own wants and well-being above that of their child, so why would "I enjoy my charming family member's company, and it's just a hug or two they insist on, right? Can't my kid just deal with it, follow my orders, and stop being weird?" be any different?
Besides, they only touch my ass once or twice a visit, and I can tolerate that- and they're not taking that further with me because they know I'll hurt them if they go further. Clearly, the same calculus is in play when they're interacting with my kids, and surely won't be tempted to take it any further despite their complete lack of similar defenses.

In the same way (and for exactly the same reasons) women complain about men trivializing their safety concerns, that goes double for children. "Must be exaggerating or mischaracterizing the interaction", "saying this just to get a reaction from the adults", and "doesn't even have the vocabulary/grammar to explain what's even happening clearly enough to take action" (or a combination of the 3 at the same time) is not actually a bad heuristic when dealing with children in the first place (especially because a good chunk of the time it's true).

Other than that, this isn't a tractable problem for any kid whose parents don't think it's a big deal. The only way around that is to destroy the family structure entirely, and now instead of the family molesting your kids you have standardized State-mandated molestation for everyone; whether that's an improvement or not is an exercise for the reader.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Presumably because there's no reason to let one's disgust with a pedophile inform as to whether they are actually trans.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I think you're right to be deeply skeptical of any "support" groups, but I think the problem is worse than any specific support group but would instead be inherent to them.

The average dangerous criminal knows that the crime they committed is morally wrong, but rationalise their crime to themselves due to some circumstance or exception that 'permits' them to commit that crime. The fancy term for this is Techniques of Neutralization. For instance, the average murderer is not a cold-blooded killer. They know murder is wrong. They'll repeatedly reiterate that they know murder is wrong. But there will be this one guy, this one exception, who absolutely deserved what he got, for whatever rationale they either had beforehand or constructed in the aftermath. So the average murderer commits only one murder, and usually do so in a fairly reckless way with minimal effort to avoid being caught.

Child predators do not behave like this. The typical profile of a child predator is someone who knows that the law regards their actions as wrong, that almost all of society regards their actions as wrong, but personally does not regard their own actions as wrong. This makes them an unusual combination of extremely opportunistic, far more apt at preparing and covering up their crimes than any equivalent, and also far more likely to be a serial criminal.

How to tell if you're not at risk of predating on children? The same way everyone else manages to not commit violent crime. The average human is attracted to adult men or women in some combination, yet can easily go their entire life without committing rape primarily because they believe rape to be wrong. A pedophile who seriously believes that molesting children harms them is unlikely to act on that impulse and unlikely to need or care about support, and hypothetically this is the majority in much the same way that the majority of people don't commit rape and don't need support groups to tell them not to rape. The real dangerous individuals are those who do not genuinely believe that their potential crime would harm children, though they may certainly make a good act of claiming to hold that belief. Nyberg's statements fit that profile.

I don’t recall any of them being focused on the potential harm actually molesting a child would cause, or any type of moral repugnance against molestation by people who claimed this condition.

And that's exactly the dangerous circumstance.

For this reason I don't think any self-created "support" group could ever be useful. If you join a such a group, then you believe yourself to be sufficiently at risk of committing such an act, which in the first place requires you don't think it to be morally repugnant. So these support groups end up self-selecting for people who don't think it's morally repugnant and will soon start constructing elaborate justifications of it for each other to use. Any actually productive support would need to be imposed externally and in a fairly hostile way, with the express intent of distilling the same sense of moral repugnance anyone else gets in such a circumstance.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

SJW’s will defend mass murdering dictators if they can be convinced he was on their side, it’s not particularly notable that they’ll defend pedophiles.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I don’t see much of that. I recall watching Reddit on that very issue, and while they sort of managed to talk a good game about “wanting help” and so on, there were a lot of things about that discourse that made me suspect that “therapy” as they were looking for it was more of a fig leaf than a honest search for help.

I don’t recall any of them being focused on the potential harm actually molesting a child would cause, or any type of moral repugnance against molestation by people who claimed this condition. They instead focused on their situation, how they were mistreated, how they were at risk of losing everything, and how they were not allowed to be sexual as they wanted. At the same time, they were very quick to point out the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. Now I get the risk of coming forward, but I just never noted anything that suggested that they really understood what molesting a child did to the child or that they even cared.

Second, they simply aren’t that interested in actually solving the problem or doing anything to make it more difficult to offend. They weren’t asking for drug intervention, they weren’t asking for in patient treatment. They weren’t even willing to inform anyone else or restrict themselves from working in places where they would have easy access to children either in private life or at work. What they wanted was once a week outpatient talk therapy and nothing else. That’s not much in the way of treatment and would not protect kids. The pedophiles attending would still be able to get jobs in places where they work with kids, they’d still have full libido, and nobody around them is alert to the problem.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

If the KKK attacks someone for being black, and that person also happens to be a pedophile but very few people know that and the evidence of it is currently hotly debated, a lot of people will take issue with the KKK attacking them for being black.

10 years later, anyone who feels like it can go back and curate a narrative about that and say 'hey look, they were defending a pedophile'.

/shrug. Not all victims are good people, that doesn't mean you do a full background check and wait for consensus to form before trying to protect them. Even if, yes, that will sometimes get used against you in hindsight.

If someone defends Andrew Tate while saying they don't believe him to be a sex trafficker, I give them the benefit of the doubt and say they defend a right-wing asshole and are probably suffering from motivated reasoning in evaluating him. I don't say that they defend sex traffickers.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

How about which side was able to control the narrative enough to run defense for an open pedophile?

I understand that a lot of things were said/accusations made... So accusations made by one side against the other is suspect. But when one side says things about themselves, I think that is meaningful.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

It seems to me like you are demonstrating problem's point - you don't know or care about the issue, so you assume the mainstream take is correct. But the mainstream position is so helplessly corrupt and biased that this results in you defending a documented cp-sharing pedophile. On the grounds that it's pointless to talk about him, in the same thread where people are arguing about shoe on head's socialism and how anti-semitic hlynka is. I notice that I am confused.

Also it's three words.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I don’t know anyone who believes that child molestation is okay as long as you’d prefer adults.

Maybe there's a gendered difference? When I reported being fondled and groped the response was always that it was okay and I shouldn't be bothered by it because it wasn't sexual despite people literally grabbing my penis. A few times I was punished for trying to pull their hands away, and one particular person chasing me as I tried to avoid her at get-togethers became a running family joke. Those experiences make me feel like that belief isn't that uncommon.

The particular offender to whom I refer has allegedly been inappropriate with adults as well. I don’t know that he is a true pedophile. I am simply astonished that apparently someone can try his hardest to fuck a child, and everyone will just… act like it didn’t happen. Perhaps you and I agree about taking a hard line on troublesome behavior.

Yes, such behavior is not acceptable. I feel like a lot of the hatred of pedophilia comes down to people wanting an easy way to show they are against child molestation without having to actually put in any real effort in preventing it, like confronting someone actually molesting a child.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I agree with you. My question was in response to apparently not hating pedophiles.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Is there a reason you choose to use the pronoun she for a male pedophile?

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

The problem is we focus too much on hatred specifically of pedophilia rather than of child molestation. There are a number of problems with this approach beyond the one @Sunshine mentioned. Most relevant to your argument is the assumption that only pedophiles molest children, and the corollary that if you aren't a pedophile then your behavior must be "okay". The majority of child molesters are not pedophiles and they will often justify their behavior based on this fact.

On a more personal note, I think taking a harder line on troublesome behaviors would make my life as a pedophile much easier. Almost all of my sessions with my therapist boil down to some variation of "What is the appropriate behavior in this situation?" (eg, "A child comes up to me while I'm walking my dog and asks to pet her. Do I let the child pet my dog or not?"). It is extremely confusing how many behaviors are considered problematic based on whether the actor is attracted to someone rather than judging the intentions of the actor and the actual impact on others.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Okay. None of my beliefs about Gamergate and who was right or wrong turn on the question of whether Sarah Nyburg was a pedophile and whether particular people defended her.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Presumably, to facilitate distinguishing those who commit sex offenses against children and those who are sexually attracted to children but refrain from acting on that attraction and wish to continue refraining therefrom. However much the former should be hated (though I seem to recall something about hating the sin but loving the sinner), it is not clear to me why the latter should be hated.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Sure, but what makes you so sure it's not a Chinese cardiologist issue?

The part where a bunch of prominent anti-GG figures lined up to cover it up, despite clear proof. Anti-GG communities like GamerGhazi too, where the moderators set related threads to only show posts individually approved by moderators, not letting through any posts linking proof that the accusations were true. It is not a matter of a single semi-prominent individual being a pedophile who groomed an 8-year-old and shared pictures of her with other pedophiles online. It is the strong tendency in the SJW community (and SJW-aligned organizations and media outlets) to defend or censor mention of bad behavior by those with the right identity and/or enough SJW ingroup affiliation.

This is a tendency among many groups, but with social-justice it seems much stronger than normal, and they have more power to do so. The exception of course is violation of SJW taboos, so there tends to simultaneously be a witch-hunt atmosphere for harmless, trivial, or unproven behaviors even as worse and more proven behaviors are denied or excused. An unproven accusation of sexual harassment made decades after the fact against a white male non-SJW is damning, but someone like Donna Hylton can become a well-regarded activist despite having spent days torturing, raping, and murdering a man. This is part of it being a totalizing moralistic ideology, in which adherence to the ideology takes precedence over all other concerns. This was the root cause behind GG itself, the drive to cover up or defend the bad behavior of Quinn/Grayson and SJW-aligned game journalists in general. But we also see this tendency at work in countless other areas, from UK police being more concerned about racism than shutting down rape gangs to scientific journals and dataset providers adopting censorious policies that prioritize the censorship of ideologically-inconvenient research over the pursuit of science.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I have no dog in this fight, but I don't think we should keep anything "highly hated." Hate is a bad thing. I think that there is probably an optimal level of social scorn we should direct towards pedophiles in order to minimize the amount of pedophilia in the world, and I think we should calculate that amount rather than just go nuts and hope for the best.

My best guess is that the target should be just enough scorn to dissuade them from committing crimes, but not so much scorn that we dissuade them from seeking professional help. I'm reasonably confident we've overshot the mark. It's quite possible that a modest reduction in hatred directed at pedophiles would actually result in fewer children being molested.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Like this one, where Nyberg openly admits to being a pedophile, admits to being attracted to her younger cousin, Dana, calls her her little girlfriend, and states that "let me see Dana and I will get you all the silverware you can eat".

I remember Nyberg also shared pictures of Dana with other pedophiles online.

https://archive.is/rD6TL

Conversation with #ffshrine at 2006-06-04 18:04:46 on Roph@deep13.xelium.net (irc)

(23:48:28) uranus: thx for giving my cell phone number to alpott

(23:48:33) uranus: and sarahs

(23:48:38) uranus: and giving out danas pics~

Conversation with #ffshrine at 2006-06-30 22:20:25 on Roph@deep13.xelium.net (irc)

(01:18:13) Minty: sarah, have you actually posted pics of dana before

(01:18:23) Sarah: privately, yes

(01:18:29) Sarah: and once when I was drunk I linked to her in the chat

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Why use minor attracted person? First it is three words instead of pedophile. Like all woke language it is ugly. Second, it is often used to try to legitimize something we should keep highly hated.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

Rarely a good defense of a movement.

Who was defending the movement? My point was that when you wonder why something gets swept under the rug, you should ask how large the thing itself was. It's unclear to me that Nyberg was another Sarkeesian or Wu.

Even granting the idea that she was, it would be wrong to say that the entire story was suppressed. As I said, even a naive search for just her name returns the articles talking about her being a pedophile. RationalWiki has no control over that, they can only dictate the content of their own pages.

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 13, 2023

I mean, yeah? Is that surprising? Why would a mainstream org even care? Progressive hypocrisy isn't that hard to find and it's over some nobody? Even if I ran the most anti-woke paper in existence, I probably wouldn't dive into the specifics of one pedophile and her progressive defenders from the Gamergate era.

The mainstream tends to love excavating initially niche things and making them into huge stories, as long as it conforms to their preexisting ideological bent. They kind of control what is niche and what's not, and typically the things that get dragged into the spotlight are culture wars they feel they have a good likelihood of winning. The media dictates the cultural reach of a story as much as it responds to it.

In addition, I would like to record as many instances of progressive misconduct I can find. It's not just the magnitude of these instances that matter - the frequency at which it occurs also matters when you're trying to convince normies of your point, and finding more than a few fairly egregious instances and being able to document them exhaustively - niche or not - does help you. And some of the people who supported Nyberg - such as Leigh Alexander and especially Dan Olson of Folding Ideas - are not niche.

That's fair, but I don't think this is the best example of how Gamergate was poorly treated. The nicheness of the story itself overshadows the "progressive hypocrisy/culture-warring" aspects, imo.

I mean, I agree, but I've already covered the main thrust of my point as to how Gamergate was poorly treated in my previous top-level thread about it and don't really care to write about what I've already addressed a second time. This just builds on that. The issue is that at this point I've covered most of the major, mainstream topics in the culture war that I have strong opinions about. I am very much a specialist with a very limited scope who espouses the approach in this blogpost: "So if you want to stop being an NPC, simply say “I don’t know” to all the matters that don’t concern you. And that will give you the time to not be an NPC on all the matters that do".

I've addressed the topics I care about (mainly identity-progressivism) ad nauseam in many forums IRL and online for years, and so most of the new information that I'm coming across is necessarily going to concern less mainstream topics and situations. Of course, I definitely don't expect everyone to care about the minutiae of the culture wars I look into. But this is a weird forum with weird people that may or may not find it interesting. If there's a place on the internet at all it belongs to, I think it's this one.