pedophile
I do think black people have a significantly lower average IQ than whites, that this has a genetic component, and this means that disparate impact civil rights law and affirmative action should not exist.
I don't think this comes from a believe in 'fuck everyone not like me' - I'm happy to work with smart Indians, Chinese, etc. And if I see a black person who's in fact contributing at the same level as a non-black person, I'm happy to work with that person too! (Clarence Thomas, for instance, doesn't seem to be any worse of a justice than the others).
I think most pro-HBD commenters here have beliefs like that?
I don't think most trans people are pedophiles though, or that they're transing our kids in the schools or w/e. I don't think transitioning is a good choice for anyone, but there's not really any concrete relationship between the way it's bad and pedophilia or schools.
guesswho
1yr ago
See discussion here, the whole point is that hatred and endorsing name-calling are not necessary for your policy stance to be 'fuck them' in consequentialist terms.
Ans, yes, there are plenty of non-ideological ways to arrive at a conclusion like black people have lower IQ, or that most trans people are pedophiles, or that immigrants are dangerous and disgenic, or that feminists have gone too far, or etc.
But if you believe all of them at once, I'm not wrong to notice the correlation between that and one of the two dominant ideologies that define most political discussion in the english-speaking world, and guess that your bottom line is being written by a cultural affiliation, rather than the arguments above it.
Hlynka was at least interesting in being both anti-progressive and anti-HBD. Yo need to actually think about things for yourself to find yourself in that position.
That's more interesting than me, and most of the people here. Which makes it valuable to the discourse, right or wrong.
ChickenOverlord
1yr ago
You can say that black people are stupid and trans people are deluded pedophiles every day for years, as long as you maintain decorum.
But if someones recognizes that what you're saying there is 'fuck everyone not like me' and responds with 'hey, fuck you too', that person is not being polite and must be eliminated.
Do you consider there to be any possible explanation for those views other than "fuck everyone not like me?" I don't believe that black people are "stupid," though I do believe that there will be fewer high IQ blacks per capita than whites and Asians. I don't hate them, I just want to stop giving them handouts and discriminating in their favor. And I don't believe that all trans people are deluded pedophiles, just the overwhelming majority of the MtF ones.
Knowing that I hold these views, do you believe that I personally think "fuck everyone not like me?" If so, why?
'polite' being the code word doing a lot of work, here.
You can say that black people are stupid and trans people are deluded pedophiles every day for years, as long as you maintain decorum. That's still 'polite'.
But if someones recognizes that what you're saying there is 'fuck everyone not like me' and responds with 'hey, fuck you too', that person is not being polite and must be eliminated.
Hlynka wasn't interested in maintaining decorum when it was an obvious papering over disrespectful or violent thoughts. I admired how long he was able to act on that disinterest without getting permabanned.
Personally, the masquerade is getting boring for me too. But out of respect for mod wishes, I'll try to fade out rather than flame out if it becomes too annoying to bother with.
VinoVeritas
1yr ago
nazi pedophile
That's a whole new kind of "mixed race and belongs in neither camp" lol
Chomos are the lowest of the low and I think the pedos think the same of 'nazis'
curious_straight_ca
1yr ago
No! I'm happy that we allow Holocaust deniers or the (iirc) nazi pedophile from a while ago to post if they follow the rules. But that's the kind of comment I'd expect to see as a reply to iamyesyouareno on twitter, not one I want to see here.
hydroacetylene
1yr ago
We have(or had) more than one actual pedophile willing to write 10,000 word manifestos about it.
Lewis2
1yr ago
This is a good illustration of what I mentioned in my last response to @guesswho. I agree 100% with all of this. People should really cool it with the wood chipper memes when talking about non-offending pedophiles, even as they build statues of Gary Plauche for his actions in dealing with offending pedophiles. It’s just about impossible to say that, though, because no one will believe you’re the ACLU defending Nazis; they’ll assume you’re just secretly a pedo yourself.
Lewis2
1yr ago
Are you talking about MAP stuff?
Largely that, yes, though I also have in mind some of the pedophilia-adjacent things in the trans arena—child drag queens and the like. I largely agree with hydroacetylene’s comment below on how pedophilia could be normalized; I just think he’s missing an additional set of arguments borrowed from the trans movement. If pre-pubescent children can choose to medically transition from one sex to another, it really isn’t a huge jump to give them agency over their sex lives as well (personally, I’d go further and say that allowing transition but not sex is plain incoherent; if anything, it should be the other way around). The case for giving barely-pubescent children sexual freedom is even stronger, and I agree with hydroacetylene that this is more likely for children who opt for same-sex relationships, since that eliminates the concern about pregnancy and since ephebophilic relationships are already more common among gay men. (And yes, I know that technically pedophilia doesn’t include attraction to 12 year olds, but that’s what the vast majority of people consider it.)
In general, though, I tend to look at pedophilia normalization through the lens of the gay rights movement’s history. If you asked the average American in 1960—a time when sodomy was illegal in every state in the union, a year before the famous Boys Beware! educational film was released, and nine years before the Stonewall riots—whether he thought same-sex marriage would ever be legalized throughout the country, he’d laugh you out of the room. Forget marriage, he’d think you were insane if you suggested SCOTUS would rule as it did in Lawrence v. Texas. I think we might be in the same spot today with regard to pedophilic relationships.
This is why I’m not really happy about the MAP and non-offending pedophile stuff I see, even as I agree with pretty much everything they’re saying. Pedophiles don’t choose to be attracted to children, it’s wrong to conflate temptation with action, and it’s a problem that non-offending pedophiles don’t feel safe to discuss their problems with therapists, etc. I wish society would change to make those distinctions clear, but I just don’t trust that the current reasonable concerns raised by MAP activists aren’t a camel’s nose peeking its way into the tent.
MotteThrow
1yr ago
MaiqTheTrue
Renrijra Krin
1yr ago
Reddit was halfway there when I left a couple of years ago. I’d regularly see talk about non-offending pedophiles, and Reddit was quite quick to defend the distinction between ephebophiles and pedophiles. They wanted outpatient treatment with no registrations or job/home location restrictions. Basically, a pedophile could be working in a position that left them alone with small children with no need to even disclose their desires.
hydroacetylene
1yr ago
I disagree with you. Actual normalization of pedophilia will take at least a couple decades; redditors are not a majority even if they could be converted over to supporting pedophiles relatively more easily.
I expect the progression to be 'well MAPs shouldn't face discrimination unless they're active pedophiles'-> 'cartoon CP isn't CP'-> 'CP that already exists isn't hurting anyone to keep consuming it'-> 'ethically produced CP'-> 'what of the child's rights to engage in relationships with adults'-> 'what's wrong with sex? You know they used to say this about homosexuals, too?'. Maybe with a parallel process towards accepting homosexual ephebophilia; AFAIK typical examples of "male bad behavior" like that seem much more accepted among the gay community than among straight people, but I don't think all or even most gay men are pedophiles or in fact want anything at all to do with anybody younger than a teenager, sexual or otherwise. But the history of left wing movements is pushing for more by taking smaller victories than the ultimate goal so as to advance the end state; you couldn't have obergefell without lawrence v Texas and you couldn't have lawrence v Texas without a large majority of the country already thinking that homosexuality is deplorable and all, but actually making it illegal is ridiculous.
Now if you'll excuse me I'll feel gross for typing that for a few minutes.
guesswho
1yr ago
Not a historian as I said, and I have a lot of ignorance on this topic, I was referring to a general sense this is true that I'd gotten from reading other people talk about this argument and the slippery slope fallacy in general. I could very definitely be wrong and it's a more recent development.
Are you talking about MAP stuff and the 'gold-star' (non-offending) pedophile narrative?
I have certainly seen stuff along the lines of 'people who are attracted to minors can't help it, they should not actually be woodchippered if they haven't actually done anything to any kids, we should let them looks at drawings or AI porn to deal and monitor them to make sure they don't offend but they're not actually evil just for the thought-crime alone'.
I will say that I've seen this exist, although all the leftist spaces I'm in are pretty hostile to it and I've seen people trying it get banned from several places.
But I'll also point out that 'non-offending' is the central distinction in this rhetoric, this rhetoric relies on drawing a sharp distinction between offending and non-offending pedophiles in a way that actually draws more attention and vitriol towards hating and punishing offenders.
I wouldn't be totally surprised if in 70 years we don't talk about woodchippering people who say they are unfortunately attracted to minors but strictly use AI-generated VR porn to deal with it, or w/e. I actually would expect a world like that where those people are known and monitored (informally at least) and have outlets and a life script to follow to have less child abuse than our current world where they hide off the grid.
Unless you think you have seen people using leftist rhetoric to say why actual sex with children in reality is fine and good, and seen that get any uptake? I absolutely have not seen that, if that's what you mean.
(I'd also point out that groups like NAMBLA have tried that tactic in the past and failed, I think you will always have some people trying to appropriate the current paradigm to support their dumb/bad thing, but that doesn't mean they will succeed nor that the current paradigm favors/helps them. That's just how anyone tries to make their point)
SwordOfOccam
1yr ago
As I pointed out a few times earlier, if Trump honestly believed the 2016 election was rigged against him with millions of fraudulent votes (they just barely didn’t have enough to quite win the electoral college…), then his first order of business should have been a major investigation such that it couldn’t happen again.
Actually, even if he didn’t believe it and was merely saying it for propaganda purposes, it would have been a classic political maneuver to use a pretense for a major corruption investigation to defeat enemies and ensure ongoing political power.
Trump has the right instincts to be a strongman, just not the heart to follow though. Same thing goes for the meddling in the 2020 election outcome and that whole bit where Pence was supposed to play along, but instead there was a March on the Capitol to threaten his decapitation. It’s like a LARP of a would-be autocrat (along with threatening to imprison Hillary, bombing various countries, etc.). Trump has plausible deniability in the minds of many due to the half-hearted and bumbling attempts. I’ve had arguments with Trump supporters/defenders where one will say “of course he doesn’t mean it” and another will say “I’m excited for Trump to expose the corruption and jail the pedophiles.” A lot of MAGA takes him seriously and literally.
While I think plenty of Trump’s most vocal critics have cried wolf more than once (I define “TDS” as anyone who is more critical of Trump than I am), it does amaze me that people I formerly respected as “constitutional conservatives” don’t seem too concerned about Trump’s antics in terms of their present effect, or the potential effects down the road. I’d be a lot more concerned if Trump was 55, but his lasting effect on the GOP might still be pretty bad after he is out of the picture.
Hopefully we regress to a more sane political climate mean instead of pursuing a downward spiral.
MadMonzer
Temporarily embarrassed liberal elite
1yr ago
If by "pedophile" you mean "a person who frequently experiences sexual attraction to people below the local age of consent" (which, as far as I can see, the people promoting the idea that there are pedophiles everywhere do) then almost every adult male is a pedophile - the age at which young adults reach sufficient physiological maturity to look bangable is lower than the age that young adults in our infantilized society can be trusted with the freedom the sexual revolution is supposed to have delivered. This is unhelpfully conflated with actual pedophiles - i.e. people with a paraphilic attraction to pre-pubescent children - who are very few in number and have had no politically influential defenders since NAMBLA was kicked out of the queer alphabet soup movement in the 1980's. "A shadowy cabal of degenerate elites is sexually abusing pre-pubsescent children on an industrial scale" is Qanon nonsense. "Multiple shadowy cabals of degenerate elites are sexually abusing teens on an industrial scale" is simply true.
For reasons that are too long to fit into this post, post-sexual revolution society has been very, very bad at preventing sexual abuse of young adults (whether below or above the local age of consent). Essentially every institution which gives grown men sexual access to teenagers has had an abuse scandal. Right now, this is burning the populist right more than the left - some of this is media bias, and some of it is that the populist right has made "we have no standards of personal ethics whatsoever for movement leaders" a tribal principle, whereas the left has kind-of sort-of done the opposite post MeToo.
On the specific scandals the OP is talking about, there is no equivalence whatsoever. The factual claims of Pizzagate are straightforwardly false (the scandal involves children being sexually abused in the basement of a pizza parlour that does not, in fact, have a basement) whereas the core factual claims in the Hungarian scandal (that Janos V molested the boys, that Endre K helped with the cover up, and that President Novak pardoned Endre K) are essentially uncontested - the controversy is about which figures in Orban's inner circle were involved.
Wasn't expecting to have to litigate whether they're true pedophiles, rather than lizardmen, but I'll take it. Go round them up, I'll bring out the woodchipper.
ThenElection
1yr ago
In San Francisco, we got a homeless pedophile advertising free fentanyl to kids from pre-k to 8th grade outside their school:
(In fairness, he did end up arrested and convicted, but only after public outcry.)
4bpp
Now I am become a Helpful, Honest and Harmless Assistant, the destroyer of jobs
1yr ago
I think a more probable theory is that children are just too damn^W^W^W^W^Wthere are lot more pedophiles than is commonly believed or accepted, especially "circumstantial rather than obligate" ones, but there is some combination of elites being more likely to be caught, it being more widely publicised when elites indulge in it, and elites being more likely to indulge in it in such a brazen and well-networked fashion simply because elites are more likely to have brass (more hobos than religious leaders may be pederasts, but nobody will put the former in charge of lots of children) and a network of underlings and supporters that could be mobilised to enable it.
guesswho
1yr ago
I expect that they're not true pedophiles in the sense of not being aroused by adults, and rather just get off on the taboo and power dynamics involved, but otherwise I can largely agree.
ArjinFerman
Tinfoil Gigachad
1yr ago
namely in the context of the ongoing Hungarian presidential pardon scandal, where liberal leftist influencers have pretty much reinvented the Pizzagate conspiracy theory
Why can't we all just shake hands on the idea that we are all, left or right, being ruled by lizardmen pedophile elites, and act accordingly?
MathWizard
Good things are good
1yr ago
even though you've never believed in the validity of the accusation at all?
This is an incredibly rare scenario that almost never sees play anywhere, especially in the examples you give. Nobody in mainstream politics or culture thinks that being a racist or a pedophile is okay and therefore an invalid accusation that can simply be ignored. Dismissals are always founded on assumptions that the accusation is so obviously false that they don't even require rebuttals, that opponents are wolf-criers with no credibility, not that the accusations are true but ignorable because the they aren't bad.
Therefore, it is entirely consistent and not at all hypocritical to believe that opponents are unreliable wolf-criers who shouldn't be taken seriously when they make accusations, but then if you find actual evidence of them misbehaving to accuse them of the same crime, if you have actual evidence. Which of course, each side believes about themselves and not their opponents.
Stefferi
Chief Suomiposter
1yr ago
I've seen "reverse Uno" used for this tactic.
I'm not exactly sure if that's the best example available, since "pedophile rings rule this entire country" has been a staple of theorizing from both the left and the right in different countries way before Pizzagate already. See eg. South Africa, Belgium, UK, US, just to list some examples immediately coming to mind.
A gay pedophile, and feyd-rautha was a heterosexual rapist- heavily implying the baron to be a pedophile and feyd-rautha committing rape would have had the weirdo sexual pervert effect without being politically incorrect.
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