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I don't think anyone is obliged to find anyone else attractive but at the same time we should be willing to look critically at the preferences and beliefs we do have. When we're talking about racial preferences I think the natural investigation is to ask what that racial preference is rooted in. Is there some trait you find attractive that you think people of a certain race have that people of other races don't? My impression is these discussions tend to flatten substantial intra-racial variation in the traits in question and engage in a lot of racial essentialism.
So, let’s take black women — and my sense is that the plight of black women is the primary subtext of your comment.
I have met, interacted with, worked alongside, and befriended numerous black women over the course of my life. I think I have about as much intimate exposure to black women, black culture, etc., as any other white American who has lived in a large diverse city and attended public schools in a non-wealthy area. My perceptions of them are not informed by stereotypes and media portrayals, but by direct and repeated interpersonal contact.
I would never deny that there are attractive, feminine, intelligent, pleasant, and sexually-appealing black women. I’ve met several myself, I’ve flirted with them, I’ve even kissed a few. Like most men of any race, I prefer mixed and/or lighter-skinned black women with gracile features and smooth hair, rather than dark-skinned heavily African-looking women with heavy features and kinky/poofy hair. That’s not to say I’ve never seen or met attractive dark-skinned, non-mixed black women — I think most men would agree that, for example, Simone Biles is a very attractive woman — but they’re fewer and farther between.
That being said, it simply is verifiably true that rates of obesity are significantly higher among black women than they are among white women, and that’s to say nothing of Asian women. Average differences in temperament (whether you want to identify them as culturally-informed, or genetic, or some combination of the two) are well-documented, and so are average differences in physical build, and even more subtle things like smell. Black women smell different from white women. Their skin feels different. It’s understandable that someone whose primary romantic/sexual experience is with white women might find intimate contact with black women to be unfamiliar, slightly disconcerting, and just less familiar.
Furthermore, when it comes to the relatively small segment of black women who are genuinely hot, feminine, intelligent, and able to perform middle-class respectability, they generally seem to find themselves catapulted into high-status roles which give them the pick of the litter of nearly all high-status black men, plus some portion of high-status non-black men. Those women are highly unlikely to come into contact with lower-status white guys like me — both because they are unlikely to share the cultural hobbies which would put them into everyday casual interaction with me, and also because they’re too busy being wined and dined by wealthier men than I.
So, for the average white guy, the odds of regularly encountering the kinds of black women who may interest him are quite low, and the probability of both him and her being xenophilic enough to overcome significant cultural differences and fall for each other is even lower. It’s not primarily because they are stereotyping each other; rather, they are fairly accurately perceiving each other, and deciding that the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
Obesity explains almost all the racial dating gap between BW - WM and BM - WW. There is no need for very online theories of facial structure or hormonal differences as per @TitaniumButterfly.
Most racial groups in the US have similar obesity rates between genders. Black people have extreme divergence, with men less fat than white men but women much fatter than white women. Almost 60% of black women are obese. Only around 40% of black men are obese. By contrast, obesity rates for white, hispanic and Asian groups are almost the same between men and women.
Ehhhh I don’t know about that. It’s obviously a significant factor — many black men certainly seem very interested in overweight white women, whereas nearly no white men are interested in comparably overweight black women — but surely there are a number of other important contributing factors as well. I’m not sure why you would be so dismissive of facial structure as an important consideration; I think it’s fair to say that the modal female Sub-Saharan facial phenotype is “more masculine” (i.e. less gracile, heavier features) than the modal female Eurasian facial phenotype.
And obviously personality and cultural differences are very important here as well. Black women, on average, have more domineering, more brash, and more extroverted personalities than white and Asian women. It’s understandable that many white men would be put off by this, whereas some number of white women would conversely be attracted to the similarly brash and extroverted personalities of black men. Men want someone feminine and demure, while women want someone forceful and confident.
Media, entertainment, and academia also put their thumbs on the scale for black men, in depicting them as more brash and exciting, and at least just as intelligent as white or Asian men. And women get much more of their worldview through memetic sources.
So men’s physical preferences are simple biology, completely unaffected by culture, while women’s physical preferences are determined largely by cultural forces?
You're overstating the matter but yes, the truth lies in that basic direction.
I'll relay a similar overstatement I heard somewhere else: Men are attracted to youth and beauty; women are attracted to anything that wears a suit and treats them like shit.
Not entirely sure what to make of that but I do think about it from time to time.
The ugly man in the suit who treats them like shit or the hot man who doesn’t? Seems more like a bitter divorcee statement than something based in reality; they just go for the guys who treat them badly is a way to cope with the fact that they’re more likely to go to for the hot men, good or bad, than for them.
I don't think so. I think of all the anecdotes I've heard of male med students who can't get a date to save their lives until they get the magic title, at which point they're swimming in desirable potential mates. I've observed this same (general) phenomenon in the lives of those around me with those successful in business, etc.
The reality is that power and status are attractive to women in a way that they are not to men. The 'suit' in the line I quoted points to this, but so does the 'treats them like shit'. That sort of behavior is and always has been a strong signal of reproductive fitness, since it indicates both that 1) the other men in the society are willing to put up with it, ergo the guy acting that way must be very near the top of the hierarchy and 2) the guy knows he can treat women that way because for such as him they're not the gatekeepers any more; he is.
Yes, good looks do matter, but so often correlate with the behavior I'm describing here.
My model indicates that a woman would rather marry a good-looking man who treats her well -- but she gets a lot hotter thinking about the good-looking man who treats her poorly. The one who treats her well is, sadly, sending a signal that he's grateful to have her, which indicates that she could probably have done better.
FWIW, and you can take this or leave it, but I'm attractive, successful, happily married to the woman of my dreams (whom I treat very well), and have enough children that I had to stop a moment to double-check the number in my head.
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