This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
If you will pardon some hysterical left wring political doomerism:
I think I'm having an AI risk moment, and you guys are doing it to me!
I was always kinda skeptical of leftist claims re. right wing fascism in the US.
Yes, claiming the election was stolen is a little ehhhhh, but it is also just more traditional right wing signaling about corrupt institutions and blah blah blah.
Yes, circling the wagons around Trump and friends when they were doing clearly sketchy/criminal shit was a little fucked, but could I honestly say the left or the libs wouldn't do the same thing in exchange for the presidency? Of course not.
Yes, conservative justices are openly political and have only enough respect for precedent to secure the fig leaf with blue tack, but come on now. Roe v Wade, anyone?
The reaction of right wing populists, elected officials, intellectuals, and media regarding our lovable insane maga hammerbro doing a little trolling are making me wig out. People I thought were wrong but serious passing around clear bullshit about gay escorts, pretending the dude wasn't Q radicalized, and laughing it off. It's one thing for the lunatic fringe to do that shit, it's another entirely when the largest single conservative news network and most popular intellectuals are doing it.
Then I come here for a dose of sanity, and I have to dig DEEP into the replies before I find anyone positing the plainly obvious: that if you say your political opponents are child rapist election stealing perverts, some section of the population will actually believe the literal words you are saying and "take action".
Maybe I'm just having a little moment and will regress to mean in a couple weeks, but this particular incident has shifted me from "no" to "They would if they could" regarding conservatives in this country, at least temporarily.
I was already armed because I think guns are fun and cool and are never gonna be banned regardless of how many schools get shot up so I might as well have fun, now I'm shopping around for my local John Brown chapter.
(also, if you are apolitical or don't mind some leftism from time to time and are looking for a gun club, the John Brown Gun Club and SRA are actually really chill and safe, so far. Much better than the local non-denominational clubs. I haven't been flagged once by a dude shoulder carrying his AR with closed bolt and magazine loaded yet, which is a damn sight better than the public ranges in SC.)
One last thing while I'm thinking about it: Dude once showed up to the range with the sickest Springfield armory 1911 I've ever seen, all nickel and smooth as glass and beautiful as fuck, one of their 2000$ fancy jobs. Predictably everyone gathered around and asked to see it like a bunch of 7 year olds for a foil pokemon card, then dude turns around and fucking holds me up with it practically. Scary as fuck. He let me shoot it afterwards though, so that was something.
No one would be making Paul Pelosi conspiracy theories if, instead of trying to exploit their own security incompetence for political gain (the second time in 2 years for a Pelosi), all the media was meming them for incompetence. The MSNBC line should be, "Pelosi is clearly too old to secure her own home from drug addled nudists, she should be removed from Democrat leadership and replaced with new blood." The NBC line should be "Once again Nancy Pelosi has failed at basic functions of government, we need to replace her as speaker. Give Jim Jordan a try."
That is the very strange thing about this case for me; an obvious crazy guy could just stroll up and break in to a house that presumably is in a nice part of the city for rich people and has some level of "excuse me officer, a man in his underwear just jumped over that gate" monitoring going on.
I'm not expecting private security patrolling the grounds, but something like burglar alarms or a security system?
More options
Context Copy link
Also, pelosi isn't personally responsible for her home's security, is each congressperson supposed to personally audit the secret service's protections or what, so the accusation doesn't make sense.
You know the incompetent people on J6 were, again, the Capitol police. The protestors weren't attempting a coup, they just wanted to be seen and heard, and they were. That the Democrats were able to make hay out of their own massive J6 incompetence in running their police force, is again, why there are J6 false flag theories. They are plausible, because Dem-incompetence led to a Dem political victory.
More options
Context Copy link
What I read about that is that spouses etc. of congress people don't get secret service protection, only the congressperson themselves. So she and her family certainly are responsible for the security of her private home.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Essentially this.
If your whole brand is based on an image of "I am smart, and I know better, so shut up and do what I say" a visible display of gross incompetency is going to be extremely damaging to that brand, and the more one tries to deflect, rather than own the failure the more people are going to assume that the actual situation is even worse. As the old saying goes, it's not the facts of the crime that implicate guilt, but the cover up. The cover up demonstrates knowledge and intent.
How is what happened gross incompetence though? Most rich people and most national level politicians do not have 24 hour armed security. Is their incompetence in not fitting steel shutters a la The Purge? The guy smashed his way in through a window with a hammer while Pelosi was asleep. That could happen to just about anyone competent or not. Other than living in a gated community and having security cameras watched by Capitol police what else should they have done to avoid this accusation of incompetence?
Are other home invasion victims similarly incompetent if they fail to have fully automated machine gun turrets set up in overlapping fields of fire with SEAL Team Six on hot alert?
They had all that, the house also basically has a gigantic amount of open land around it. If capitol police are essentially Homer Simpsoning (and I feel I may be slandering good ole Homer here) at the Pelosi's residence that is, in fact, a massive failure in staffing by Nancy Pelosi. Perhaps Jan 6 should have been a heads up to initiate an inquiry into the agency's competency after they bumbled the situation so pathetically that a large stone-and-iron building, on a hill, surrounded with crowd control fences, with fortified doors and windows was surrendered to a couple dozen unarmed cosplayers.
If you can afford such a thing and possess items of such value that you think The Joker and Harley Quinn are likely to break in at any moment, then probably. For most people, all they can afford is a lock and maybe something that dings when a window is broken. Unlike most people, the Pelosi's both have money for armed security, and hold themselves out as people who are at serious risk of political violence.
More options
Context Copy link
At the risk of inviting karmic retribution, yes It demonstrates incompetency, because we know that the Pelosi's are "deeply concerned about right wing political violence", we know that they have 24 hour security, and we know that one would have to cover approximately 50 yards of open ground (presumably covered by security cameras) to reach the French doors in question. Breaking the door down should have brought security running if the methed-out gay prostitute on the security cameras didn't.
The reason the "Gay escort" has gained the momentum it has is that DePape is a known gay escort and it seems difficult to believe that he would be able to gain entry to the Pelosi's house without setting off any alarms unless he had been invited/let in by somebody.
Source?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Most standard issue home security systems will ring an alarm and some will even call 9-11 if a window is breached. You’d think if Pelosi was serious about the threats of political violence, she would at least have something like that in place. My guess is that they have something far more advanced.
that takes too long when you're talking a possible life or death situation. armed security, even just knowing how to use a gun, is better.
I’m not arguing about what would be the best home security system, but that it seems unbelievable that the Pelosis didn’t even have the least home security system. A plebe like me can go to Home Depot and come home with something more effective than “don’t notice when someone breaks your window and then eventually run into the bathroom to call police.”
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Probably basic firearm proficiency is a start .The overwhelming majority of home invaders are incompetent or wait for the target to leave.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
"Should be?" Why would they do this, exactly?
Because mocking incompetency is the correct response, not rewarding it.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link