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If you will pardon some hysterical left wring political doomerism:
I think I'm having an AI risk moment, and you guys are doing it to me!
I was always kinda skeptical of leftist claims re. right wing fascism in the US.
Yes, claiming the election was stolen is a little ehhhhh, but it is also just more traditional right wing signaling about corrupt institutions and blah blah blah.
Yes, circling the wagons around Trump and friends when they were doing clearly sketchy/criminal shit was a little fucked, but could I honestly say the left or the libs wouldn't do the same thing in exchange for the presidency? Of course not.
Yes, conservative justices are openly political and have only enough respect for precedent to secure the fig leaf with blue tack, but come on now. Roe v Wade, anyone?
The reaction of right wing populists, elected officials, intellectuals, and media regarding our lovable insane maga hammerbro doing a little trolling are making me wig out. People I thought were wrong but serious passing around clear bullshit about gay escorts, pretending the dude wasn't Q radicalized, and laughing it off. It's one thing for the lunatic fringe to do that shit, it's another entirely when the largest single conservative news network and most popular intellectuals are doing it.
Then I come here for a dose of sanity, and I have to dig DEEP into the replies before I find anyone positing the plainly obvious: that if you say your political opponents are child rapist election stealing perverts, some section of the population will actually believe the literal words you are saying and "take action".
Maybe I'm just having a little moment and will regress to mean in a couple weeks, but this particular incident has shifted me from "no" to "They would if they could" regarding conservatives in this country, at least temporarily.
I was already armed because I think guns are fun and cool and are never gonna be banned regardless of how many schools get shot up so I might as well have fun, now I'm shopping around for my local John Brown chapter.
(also, if you are apolitical or don't mind some leftism from time to time and are looking for a gun club, the John Brown Gun Club and SRA are actually really chill and safe, so far. Much better than the local non-denominational clubs. I haven't been flagged once by a dude shoulder carrying his AR with closed bolt and magazine loaded yet, which is a damn sight better than the public ranges in SC.)
One last thing while I'm thinking about it: Dude once showed up to the range with the sickest Springfield armory 1911 I've ever seen, all nickel and smooth as glass and beautiful as fuck, one of their 2000$ fancy jobs. Predictably everyone gathered around and asked to see it like a bunch of 7 year olds for a foil pokemon card, then dude turns around and fucking holds me up with it practically. Scary as fuck. He let me shoot it afterwards though, so that was something.
Yes, ‘Paul Pelosi invited the crazy guy in, we know this because he’s a gay prostitute, they clearly got into a dispute over drugs’ is a ridiculous lie. So are ‘Texas bans treatment of ectopic pregnancies’, ‘George Floy’s funeral presents no public health risk but having churches open in any other context is killing grandma.’, ‘misgendering is literally violence’, ‘there is no black-white IQ difference’, and dozens of others. And those are more or less party line for the democrats.
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If "how Q-pilled was the assailant of Paul Pelosi?" is the issue that drives you to join a militia to protect yourself from the eeebil righties, might I suggest you weren't that far from the edge?
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Thank heaven liberal justices are not, right? Never ever been any legislating from the bench, no proponents of judicial activism (or if there were, they were the good guys on the right side of history).
From what little I've read about the Pelosi case, the guy in question is nuts. Arguing over what radicalised him in which direction is as useful as arguing "did the fact that the wind changed from south to south-west cause him to go out in his underwear to break into Nancy Pelosi's house?"
Same way if you say your political opponents are a basket of deplorables, bitter clingers, or forcing women to give birth and continue pregnancies that will kill them. Some section will believe the words and take action.
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In the event that you're genuine and not a troll:
And ironically, you believe your outgroup are political extremists out to get you and yours leading you to 'take action' by buying a firearm and joining your local John Brown society. Political extremism is a huge problem, but tell me exactly how you're any better or how characterizing your outgroup as 'they would kill me if they could' is any better?
Do you not see the profoundly self-defeating hypocrisy involved in responding to accelerationism and domestic terrorism with veiled threats of your own? Let's pretend for a moment that you're actually a relevant target for political extremists in the same way that Nancy Pelosi, third in line for the presidency, is. Do you think that fedposting and flashing your guns are likely to bring down the temperature and decrease the likelihood of domestic terrorism in any meaningful way?
If you're really concerned about any of these issues, put on your big boy pants and try having a real conversation with people instead of fedposting massively inflammatory and uncharitable takes. You're harming the causes you claim to champion, and making all of our jobs that much harder.
I think that there's a strong belief on the right that they're holding all the cards in the event of an armed political conflict. Changing that belief would make armed conflict less attractive to the fringe that keeps incessantly talking about it.
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The red and blue cultures are qualitatively asymmetrical. Blue youths protest, sometimes en masse and sometimes in semi-orderly fashion. Red youths might attend a rally or organized protest, but the red protests pretty much started with Charlottesville and stopped with Jan 6. What you’re seeing is the lizardman’s constant on the right, the equivalent of the parade SUV massacre guy or the congressional softball shooter.
As for Mr. Pelosi’s friend David, I have yet to hear a coherent story from the left media which does fit that phone call, and the metadata on his blog is imposter levels of sus.
I don't see it that way. Charlottesville was a predominantly blue tribe protest, dissident blue tribe vs mainstream blue tribe where as the reason Jan 6th looms so large in the national psyche is that it was a red tribe protest that demonstrated a capability that the blue tribe didn't think the reds had.
The conventional wisdom is that protests need organization, corporate sponsorship, buy-in from the local attorney general, police forces etc... The idea of Trump supporters being able to not only organize a protest without such support but to do so in contested territory, to walk into the Democratic Party's holy of holies, and walk out with the high priestess' altar scared the fuck out them. Hence the outsize response by the FBI and all the talk from @ymeskhout and various others about how Jan 6th is the greatest threat to democracy since 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.
You have a nasty habit of making shit up about me
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There’s been a handful of major red tribe protests since then, notably the trucker protests.
Yes and before then, but those aren't the ones being discussed.
The claim @DuplexFields claim that red tribe protests started with Charlottesville and ended with Jan 6th is patently false unless one is using an extremely unconventional definition of both "red tribe" and "protest".
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I'm aware of your thesis about the "dissident/far/alt right" actually being leftists in rebellion, but come on, isn't this a reach? I understand that actual Blue Tribers don't have to agree, but this is too contrarian.
[Warning: highly online jargon]
Back when Reddit’s The_Donald was highly active, around the time of Hillary being appointed by the party over Bernie, we got a flood of salty Berniebros who were actively anti-Hillary and becoming walkaway/blackpilled re the Democratic Party establishment.
These were blue tribers who didn’t follow their party into the embrace of corporations and the intelligence-military-industrial complex, and who saw corporate media as the propaganda wing of the neocon❤️neolib New World Order. You can still see them bringing their memetic energy to patriots.win, The_Donald’s home in exile.
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I don't think it's a reach at all, If anything Richard Spencer and the rest of the Taki's Mag Tiki-torch crew are central examples of what I'm talking about. IE a bunch of University of Chicago and UC Berkley Black Bloc types who arbitrarily decided one that that "oh we going to be right wingers now" without making any substantial changes to their beliefs or rhetoric. They thought they could "Unite The Right" by showing up at protest over a Confederate monument and being all like "Greetings fellow
kidswhite nationalists" but they badly misread the crowd (both the opposition and their ostensible allies) because they were a bunch of University of Chicago and UC Berkley Black Bloc types who where completely out of their element.More options
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"Blue tribe and red tribe" are different from "leftist and non-leftist". I would not be surprised if a supermajority of the 200ish people there were acculturated Blue Tribe types who had gotten themselves black-pilled over some forbidden knowledge.
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Speculating about the motive and practical execution of the attack is not the same as endorsing it. I think hammer attacks are bad. I hope that no Democrats are attacked with hammers. I feel bad for Paul Pelosi. Even if he and his wife have been getting rich via insider trading during her decades in Congress, it's not OK to attack either of them with hammers. Or even break into their house to tape them up and talk to them. It's bad. Don't do it.
Now, whether Depape is a right-wing crazy person (with BLM and Rainbow signs in his yard), or a random crazy person, or a crazy gay hustler, is a completely separate question.
There used to be a sense on the Left that rich people indulged in a lot of exploitative and perverse shit and got away with it thanks to their influence on media and law enforcement. Now that the Left have become rich and powerful with heavy influence on the media and law enforcement in their deep blue cities, they strangely don't seem concerned with the misbehaviors of the rich or telling the truth about what happens when they are involved in some kind of suspicious event. I guess that's the job of the Right now. I'd rather the Left and Right cooperate on holding the powerful accountable.
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No one would be making Paul Pelosi conspiracy theories if, instead of trying to exploit their own security incompetence for political gain (the second time in 2 years for a Pelosi), all the media was meming them for incompetence. The MSNBC line should be, "Pelosi is clearly too old to secure her own home from drug addled nudists, she should be removed from Democrat leadership and replaced with new blood." The NBC line should be "Once again Nancy Pelosi has failed at basic functions of government, we need to replace her as speaker. Give Jim Jordan a try."
That is the very strange thing about this case for me; an obvious crazy guy could just stroll up and break in to a house that presumably is in a nice part of the city for rich people and has some level of "excuse me officer, a man in his underwear just jumped over that gate" monitoring going on.
I'm not expecting private security patrolling the grounds, but something like burglar alarms or a security system?
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Also, pelosi isn't personally responsible for her home's security, is each congressperson supposed to personally audit the secret service's protections or what, so the accusation doesn't make sense.
You know the incompetent people on J6 were, again, the Capitol police. The protestors weren't attempting a coup, they just wanted to be seen and heard, and they were. That the Democrats were able to make hay out of their own massive J6 incompetence in running their police force, is again, why there are J6 false flag theories. They are plausible, because Dem-incompetence led to a Dem political victory.
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What I read about that is that spouses etc. of congress people don't get secret service protection, only the congressperson themselves. So she and her family certainly are responsible for the security of her private home.
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Essentially this.
If your whole brand is based on an image of "I am smart, and I know better, so shut up and do what I say" a visible display of gross incompetency is going to be extremely damaging to that brand, and the more one tries to deflect, rather than own the failure the more people are going to assume that the actual situation is even worse. As the old saying goes, it's not the facts of the crime that implicate guilt, but the cover up. The cover up demonstrates knowledge and intent.
How is what happened gross incompetence though? Most rich people and most national level politicians do not have 24 hour armed security. Is their incompetence in not fitting steel shutters a la The Purge? The guy smashed his way in through a window with a hammer while Pelosi was asleep. That could happen to just about anyone competent or not. Other than living in a gated community and having security cameras watched by Capitol police what else should they have done to avoid this accusation of incompetence?
Are other home invasion victims similarly incompetent if they fail to have fully automated machine gun turrets set up in overlapping fields of fire with SEAL Team Six on hot alert?
They had all that, the house also basically has a gigantic amount of open land around it. If capitol police are essentially Homer Simpsoning (and I feel I may be slandering good ole Homer here) at the Pelosi's residence that is, in fact, a massive failure in staffing by Nancy Pelosi. Perhaps Jan 6 should have been a heads up to initiate an inquiry into the agency's competency after they bumbled the situation so pathetically that a large stone-and-iron building, on a hill, surrounded with crowd control fences, with fortified doors and windows was surrendered to a couple dozen unarmed cosplayers.
If you can afford such a thing and possess items of such value that you think The Joker and Harley Quinn are likely to break in at any moment, then probably. For most people, all they can afford is a lock and maybe something that dings when a window is broken. Unlike most people, the Pelosi's both have money for armed security, and hold themselves out as people who are at serious risk of political violence.
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At the risk of inviting karmic retribution, yes It demonstrates incompetency, because we know that the Pelosi's are "deeply concerned about right wing political violence", we know that they have 24 hour security, and we know that one would have to cover approximately 50 yards of open ground (presumably covered by security cameras) to reach the French doors in question. Breaking the door down should have brought security running if the methed-out gay prostitute on the security cameras didn't.
The reason the "Gay escort" has gained the momentum it has is that DePape is a known gay escort and it seems difficult to believe that he would be able to gain entry to the Pelosi's house without setting off any alarms unless he had been invited/let in by somebody.
Source?
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Most standard issue home security systems will ring an alarm and some will even call 9-11 if a window is breached. You’d think if Pelosi was serious about the threats of political violence, she would at least have something like that in place. My guess is that they have something far more advanced.
that takes too long when you're talking a possible life or death situation. armed security, even just knowing how to use a gun, is better.
I’m not arguing about what would be the best home security system, but that it seems unbelievable that the Pelosis didn’t even have the least home security system. A plebe like me can go to Home Depot and come home with something more effective than “don’t notice when someone breaks your window and then eventually run into the bathroom to call police.”
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Probably basic firearm proficiency is a start .The overwhelming majority of home invaders are incompetent or wait for the target to leave.
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"Should be?" Why would they do this, exactly?
Because mocking incompetency is the correct response, not rewarding it.
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No more openly political than the justices who originally decided Roe v Wade in the first place. Or less, inasmuch as it's less political to say "no it doesn't" than it is to say "the constitution has an unwritten magical right to abortions"
That paragraph completes a collection of 3 paragraphs all follow the form "Republicans do <scummy thing>, but Democrats aren't any better". That is to say, I'm pretty close to certain OP is saying "Roe v Wade, anyone" as a dig at Democrats
It read to me like the first hint of a tipping point, but it was vague.
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There are as nasty or nastier things that leftists say about the right, which start at Russian spies and go at least up to "literally Hitler". It results in violence too. Do you react to the left for this, similarly to how you react to the right?
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Considering that the mainstream media, conservative and liberal alike, lied America into the Iraq war (among other things), same for intellectuals and the various universities and think tanks that employ them, their credibility is pretty low on my book at least. Its not the the populists are right either, but the media and intellectuals, who are entrusted to be right, really suck at being right, too. The difference between the fringe and the media is the media is considered respectable.
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This is a fair point, but I find the rest of your post pretty uncharitable. I see the recent right-wing explosion in crazy theories as a pretty understandable, if not reasonable, response to being totally destroyed culturally and shut out of important institutions by the left. With all of the recent censorship on social media sites etc., how can we as leftists expect right-wingers not to get radicalized into conspiracy theories?
I mean, if you look at the recent social media/alphabet agency collusion, the actual deep state was literally cooperating with social media companies to censor the public. That is what we know, of course the low-IQ crazies are going to believe even worse things.
It's a shame that a couple decades ago, this type of deep state critique would be firmly in the far-left camp. Leftists have been using this conspiratorial type of critique against the Western order for the better part of a century or more to radicalize their base, albeit usually with some more qualifiers and generally sane positions. Unfortunately, the right wing flipped the script on us, and weren't able to control the crazy side of the conspiratorial minded base.
If we have to blame someone, I blame leftists for allowing one of the best social movements in human history to be captured by milquetoast wokists and clear grifters. I'm not saying the right wing is innocent, but your post reads like blaming a dying bear for lashing out at its killers.
Am I correct in understanding that you’re referring to the Chomsky type of critique, which includes literal conspiracies that actually were uncovered in due time (and even when not, carefully crafted enough to give a veneer of plausibility and deniability), over the general impression of “conspiracy theory” of things like big pharma conspiracies with vaccines and whatnot?
He is referring to thing called parapolitics (TL;DR: hard left conspiracy community crawling through all the rabbit holes whenever they lead, and doing their research without bullshit).
Some people, like Joel Van Der Reijden of ISGP do follow where the evidence leads, all the way to full HBDIQ awareness.
https://www.isgp-studies.com
https://www.isgp-studies.com/intro
(warning: site can cause severe case of blackpilling)
The 1980's, time of Iran Contra scandal was the heyday, but the community is still here (although smaller and heavily blackpilled).
This was time when doing conspiracy research did not meant listening to Alex Jones, it meant writing down names on big table and painstakingly linking them with spider web of financial, political, personal and familial connections. If you did it thorougly for long time, you found that some major nodes of the web are people whose faces are not on TV screens and magazine covers and whose names are found only in very specialized sources (and then you would lock yourself in your room and hang yourself).
https://web.archive.org/web/20200806155838/https://lombardinetworks.net/networks/the-networks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lombardi
Obligatory meme:
https://i.imgur.com/snPS83O.jpg
Thank you! I've gotten pretty conspiratorial myself over the years, but can't quite fit in with most conspiracy theorists, these guys seem like someone I can relate to.
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The only thing recent about this is that Trumpism blew the lid off things and left the lunatics in charge of the asylum instead of leaving political leadership to the more 'respectable' members of their coalition*. Conservatives have been losing the culture war for decades - not because leftists are censoring them on twitter (a vastly overrated phenomenon), but because liberals have systematically outcompeted them. That may be giving them a little too much credit; a lot of the drivers of conservative cultural collapse and liberal success are socio-economic forces, not political discourse. Nevertheless, the point remains: for pretty much the first time in living memory, it is liberals and not conservatives setting the default when it comes to social norms. The crisis facing conservatism is one of the extinction, not extermination - the institutions they have historically dominated no longer have the clout they once did and the stories they tell aren't as persuasive as they used to be.
It's understandable that they're freaking out about this. It's just not very sympathetic.
*Let's not forget that Obama's term saw the widespread popularity of things like Birtherism and Jade Helm conspiracy theories.
Left-wing conspiracy theories only seem more sane if you're predisposed to them.
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Geoff Shullenberger and guest had a pretty good podcast on this recently which took a look at how movies once promoted a fashionable kind of conspiracy mindset (Slacker, JFK). Needless to say that is way, way out now.
https://outsidertheory.fireside.fm/universal-basic-mkultra
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This is pretty much the reason I think we should not tell noble lies. Our golems will ultimately always eat us. You get it with the weird Q groups producing lunatics like the one who attacked the Pelosis and you get it with the ACAB types eventually inspiring the burning down of police stations and wanton rioting. But even you are taking the wrong tact here I think by referencing the groomer word games, which while I agree are tiresome, are not what has caused the Pelosi hammer incident. That was caused by a pervasive conspiracy theory called Q which I doubt anyone here seriously endorses as it's as plainly ridiculous now as it was when it started on 8chan. I don't know what the right can do about these people anymore than I know what the left can do about people who say "no, we were not playing word games, end the police".
I think the whole "groomer" thing is in response to "you can freely call me a Nazi, a fascist, a murderer, all this sort of thing, now how do you like it when you're called horrible names? Oh you're not a paedophile in reality? Well I'm not a Nazi, but that didn't stop you guys".
Not to be constantly carping about Rings of Power, but stuff like this :
and this:
See? If you don't like what the show has done to canon, then if you're not a fascist yourself, you're at least fascist- and white supremacist-adjacent.
Ok, groomer.
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They are literally communists and are fundamentally a political organization.
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How does your post tie back to AI risk?
I assume in the same sense as "the AI senses it is being existentially-threatened," as per the other thread about Terminator as a reprensation of AI risk.
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How is the gay escort rumour 'clear bullshit'? There is an absolute tonne of weirdness in this story, from the unnamed person who let police into the residence (what were they doing, what do they know), to the fact that they apparently found this 40-something weirdo still struggling with a man in his 80s when police arrived. How hard is it to beat up an 80 year old?
And how is it that random mentally ill people can get into expensive residences in San Francisco anyway? This couple is very, very rich, (even ignoring their political power) would they not have some kind of security mechanism sufficient to keep out weirdoes with hammers? All their security is mobile, guarding Nancy wherever she happens to be? This whole story doesn't make any sense - the most reasonable part is the Q stuff infecting somebody with a very low WIS stat. I could believe that. But everything else?
How do either of those supposed weirdnesses justify the 'gay escort' theory?
Haven't we done the "SF has a homeless criminal problem and the police won't do anything about it" thing to death?
If he was a gay escort it would explain how he got into the house.
I can't imagine being worth over a hundred million and not having sufficient security, in San Francisco of all places (where there are many homeless criminals) and not having sufficient security to keep out random weirdoes!
another explanation, much simpler and more likely, is that they have security (secret service) but they're more focused on nancy than husband, or that they had security and messed up this one.
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Apparently there was security at the house. Maybe not as effective as my Rock That Keeps Tigers Away™ but still existent.
The link refers to "the Capitol Police’s command center, which was monitoring the security camera feed from Pelosi’s home". The same Capitol Police in charge of security for the Capitol on January 6. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Perhaps the Capitol should invest in one of those rocks you speak of.
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It seems suspicious to me that security was there and didn’t notice a window getting broken.
The linked article says the "security" was someone remotely watching a camera feed:
Unclear where the camera (cameras? or just one) were pointed. I think the story is that the attacker broke a window in a side/back door, so maybe there was no camera pointing at it? But also, security cameras don't help a lot in this kind of situation; I guess they could have called the police a little sooner? I would think home security cameras are mostly useful for identifying intruders when the residents aren't home.
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The unnamed person has been retracted from the initial coverage - DePape was not beating up Pelosi until the police arrived and it sounded like literally until they opened the door - this is all in the official report here:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1548106/download
The incident is still quite weird and I'm not sure how much to hold language that convinces someone who is several standard deviations outside healthy and well-adjusted against the people speaking it, but just pushing back on a few things that seem to be misinformation.
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Yes, it would be insane if the house of the Speaker of the House didn't have 24-hour security else the Chinese could plant listening devices and terrorists bombs in the Speaker's home.
I don't think the Chinese would bother with anything like that when they can just get party cadre members hired by the Pelosis' business and likely have better access to their affairs than they do themselves.
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Uhh. Yeah, pretty sure this is trolling. The "we will murder your families because you are just as evil as slave owners" guys are who you mob up with out of "fear of political violence"? The "violent revolution is coming, get ready to slaughter MAGA chuds" guys?
That just validates everything right wingers think about leftists fretting over "political violence ", that it's not being done by and to the right people.
One local 'john brown chapter' twitter account saying that (and it's plausible it was some guy trolling, like all the 'portland city antifa' accounts - although the links below seem real) doesn't mean all john brown chapters are automatically awful. Same goes for right wing orgs or w/e
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Can you link to some examples of John Brown members stating these things?
Sadly a lot of my favorite examples have been deleted from reddit, but I'll get you some from my screenshots folder sometime.
Please do, we need a CW archive somewhere, with all grievances documented.
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Just some kids on twitter.
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If this standard would be applied to Pelosi, she herself would be guilty. Her kneeling with an African scarf was taken as showing her support for BLM conspiracy theories. The latter riots caused much greater damage and had a higher body count, than this home invasion by an insane guy with a hammer.
After you claimed that "utterly smashed them on the rhetoric and the facts" is a fair description of blank slatists performance in their debates against pro-HBD-ers, I do not trust your perception of leftist behaviour.
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