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On iPhones as a status symbol--
Quick preamble: Not sure if there is a formal name for the phenomenon whereby someone supposedly intelligent and/or scientific declares certain human behavior to be illogical or irrational, often with an undercurrent of smugness or contempt, when said behavior can fairly obviously be explained away in logical/rational terms. For example, I've read in more than one pop psychology/economics book that consumers are irrational when they pay attention to celebrity endorsements, because a move star has no professional expertise in whether say a particular make or model of car is any good. Yet celebrities have personal brands to protect, and rationally one expects the most famous ones to have teams perform some level of due diligence on what they are endorsing. Furthermore, expensive endorsement deals signal a basic level of liquidity and financial strength in the brand, which in turn means it's less likely for what it sells to be crap, given that will in turn dilute the brand value, etc. You don't typically pump and dump by signing multi-year branding deals. Then there is the reality that fans of a particular celebrity tend to align with them in tribal identification and values/preferences in general, so there is reason to believe that say a machismo star will like the same type of cars as a machismo fan, etc.
So when I encounter a behavior that doesn't seem rational, I generally assume I'm missing something under the surface rather than conclude that people are simply stupid. Well, here's a behavior that doesn't seem rational, and I'd like to understand what I'm missing:
iPhones are seen as minor status symbols--they're not Rolexes or Porsches, but still have what I consider to be outsized gatekeeping power relative to their cost. In particular, at least here in the US, younger people make a big deal out of blue/green bubbles, as the latter signals someone who does not have an iPhone. Beyond cosmetics, iPhone intentionally makes communication with Androids more difficult by refusing to integrate with RCS, which does complicate communicating with non-iPhones, but this complication is more a problem for the Android user than the iPhone user (e.g., picture Android sends iPhone is fine, but the reverse is low-res), since the lack of integration is largely unidirectional.
But the problem is iPhones really aren't a very useful signal in terms of conspicuous consumption, because they have a huge price range. For anyone looking, Walmart is about to sell the SE for $99, and the 11 for $199. Of course, plenty of Androids can be bought for even cheaper, but plenty are also premium phones costing the same as any iPhone, in particular the Samsung Galaxies and Google Pixels. Phones also look more or less identical in recent years, especially when you wrap a cover around it, so it takes effort to tell whether you have the latest Pro Max or the standard from a couple of years back. And to be honest, among women I know (who literally ALL have iPhones), at least half own ones that are 2 or more years old, and like a quarter have cracked screens. This doesn't exactly scream affluence.
Signals are useful when they are harder to fake. It's hard to fake being tall, so height (in real life) is often used as a proxy for a man's worth. Many also often anchor on Ivy League degrees for the same reason. When signals are easier to fake, people tend to place less value on them--you automatically assume the inbound message featuring a beautiful woman to be a bot, that people will look worse than they do in their Instagram. A Rolex (might be counterfeit) is less trustworthy than a Porsche (might be leased), which in turn is less trustworthy than a penthouse apartment or a mansion in SF.
So why do people seem to rely upon iPhones and blue bubbles so much, when it's so cheap and trivial to "fake"? Obviously all the Reddit/Twitter posts about women rejecting men when they find out their numbers are green bubbles are not representative of all, but it's prevalent enough to be part of the culture, and at some point the masses consciously or subconsciously adhere to that default.
The only thing I can think of is that buying iPhone is less about whether you have money, and more about whether you conform to the norm. When you own one, you signal that you accept that is what you are supposed to get, and that can be helpful in filtering out weirdos who post thousands-word essays on the internet about how buying one is so irrational.
I think this is it. Apple is the ultimate acceptable woketech company. They're the perfect encapsulation of the principle desire of the current Cathedralist zeitgeist: man locked in a walled-garden of feminine rounded corner bubble quadrilaterals for his own "safety" and "protection", disallowed from deciding fully for himself what software he will install (on his phone, but they would obviously love for this to apply to your brain too), constantly surveilled, tracked, and analyzed, his very soul residing in "the cloud".
I mean obviously your average feminine enforcer of this status quo has no idea about the details of the above, but they clearly get the hint about what their masters prefer. The only issues one could take with Apple (its wokeness, its effeteness and emphasis on (feminine) aesthetics over function, its censoriousness, its enervating maternalism, etc.) are fundamental paradigms of the current orthodox weltanschauung of power. Those who oppose Apple are thus dangerous, because if they can oppose Apple on those grounds, then they can easily reject the whole system. Thus they must be stigmatized.
The Blackberry used to be a status symbol, and same for the Razr and those taco-shaped smartphone. The iPhone succeeded because it was the most aesthetically appealing, and it had other benefits such as the app store and good product reliably. In my opinion mac product are overpriced, unusable, walled-garden toys and would only use if no other choice, but the stock has done great though. The success of apple does to some degree baffle me considering how bad the user experience is compared to alternatives for anything beyond just basic web browsing . The iPhone integrated with the iTunes store, too, so you didn't need an mp3 and a cellphone. This was in 2008-2012, before wokeness was a thing.
This is like saying "This was in 1916 - 1920 [foundation year of NSDAP], before German Nationalism was a thing." Wokeness has existed at least since the 60s, even if it wasn't called that (and Apple has been aligned with whatever it was called at the time since its formation). Political tendencies don't magically snap into existence at the exact point in history where they grow dongs big enough to slap everyone in the face.
Sure, but you didn't have people buying Apple products because Apple was signaling how much they loved gay people. People were buying Apple products because they liked what they were buying.
They liked what they were buying in large part because of the image of the product, not some genuinely enlightened analysis of its raw utility. If you slapped an Android logo on an iPhone with iOS modified to change all of the logos to Android's, they'd like it a lot less. And wokeness is a large part of that image.
I don't completely disagree, I'm sure if Apple had a partnership with Google where they released a new Google Pixel but it had all its logos changed to Apple, it'd sell like hotcakes. But as a reverse thought experiment, if Google released two phones, one that's a normal Pixel, and one that's an iPhone with the Android logo on it, you'd still see a lot of people preferring the iPhone version.
I'm really not one to argue the iPhone advantages, I'm not that into phones and I strongly prefer Android myself in any case, but it should be obvious some people genuinely enjoy the iPhone for itself, not just for signaling purposes.
But do they really enjoy the unique features of it or simply what's common to every smartphone (and yes admittedly Apple pioneered a lot UX-wise here)? In a world where only Androids existed, would they really be deprived of much actual functionality?
I have no doubt they enjoy it for itself. To go back to the debate that took this place by storm a bit ago, surely people who drink $2000 wine enjoy it for itself. The question is how much they enjoy it more than any wine beyond the prestige signaling.
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If I had argued the opposite point I'd get someone telling me how wokeness is much worse or new
It can be both worse/novel and also an extrapolation/continuation of prior tendencies, much like the different stages of cancer.
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Wow, what do you do for a living, man? I assume you code switch and employ a far more colloquial vernacular when conversing with coworkers and clients or engaging in small talk with cashiers and customer service reps. Now, it would be fun to watch a TV series featuring a main character who insists on speaking as you do in quotidian interactions. Except that'd require expensive writers that networks seem reluctant to hire.
I can't say I'm a fan of your flair though. I don't hold "your average feminine enforcer of this status quo" to high esteem either, but do you actually find that people who unironically self-describe as "pedofascist" or "androsupremacist" to be company you are keen to keep? That's not a rhetorical question by the way. I actually have no idea how you'd answer that.
Have you read A Confederacy of Dunces? No offense to @komm_nach_unteralterbach implied - despite myself being a life-long GNU+Linux user who has recently retired his Thinkpad in favor of a MacBook Air M2. Apple Silicon is superior to x86 for performance efficiency currently, and it doesn't have an Intel ME backdoor in the hardware.
I have. Perhaps I should revisit it.
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An Intel ME backdoor? Maybe not. A backdoor at all? Probably. If you really care about this then open source hardware processors are the only way IMO.
That's the crux of it - Intel laptops have a known "backdoor", whereas it is unknown if this is the case for Apple Silicon. I can only act on what I know. But I agree, and RISC-V looks promising.
I personally do all of my computing on a room-sized cluster of Playstation 2s. I doubt those were compromised way back in the day.
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Shitpost online and use my fabulous cryptocurrency wealth to jet set around the globe as a beautiful child and teen bikini model photo/videographer*
*Whole line of text may be wholly or partially inaccurate - caveat lector
You're asking if I find people who share my own political ideals, based in (to a high degree) self-coined (independently, perhaps not originally) terminology, to be company that I'm keen to keep?
...Yes? Not to be impolite at all, but I'm genuinely not sure why you might suspect the opposite. I even put "(unironic)" in my flair to make it clear. What's a fella got to do for their heterodox ideological preferences to be taken seriously!?
...
Gee I wonder why.
I see you've refined your flair so I have one more objection in "LibertAryan". The "public choice" part is now too anodyne in comparison. I look forward to seeing that part getting upgraded to something a little spicier.
I don't think my question is as ridiculous as you imply it to be. People serve different functions. I don't look for the same traits in a spouse as I do in a friend, a boss, a direct report, etc. If you are a dictator who hates taking orders from others, I doubt you'd want to surround yourself with your clones. I also doubt any of your beautiful models know half of the words in your flair. So, how many people in real life with whom you actually like to hang out match the description in your flair? I find it far more plausible you'd mesh with their online personalities than their real-life totalities, which was my original query.
I'm out of characters unfortunately so that upgrade is unlikely.
The contrast in indelicacy between the two phrases is the point; it is intended to emphasize my dual nature.
(PS: It was intended to be "libertAryan" from the beginning; I just typed it in wrong.)
Clones no; ideological comrades yes.
In any case, I'm not retardedly suicidal (socially or otherwise), so I do not in fact presently go around waving the flag of pedofascism IRL. If I just want to "hang out" with someone, I don't particularly care what their serious political convictions are as long as they can tolerate some measure of rants about the inferiority, venality, and depravity of the modern femoid, the Jew, etc. (as is my habit and personal opinion, which may vary), maybe some "joking" perverted comments toward young girls occasionally, and so on (and quite a few more people than you might think are willing to take such things casually with someone they otherwise enjoy the company of so long as they are presented with the appropriate tact of ambiguous commitment).
As for any models, if I am to be in such a creature's company, I am solely trying to get their tight ass on camera as efficiently and erotically as possible, not hear whatever hysterical TikTok-derived zoomer mad libs they claim constitute political opinions or at least that's what they seem like to me (though if I really had the inclination and got the chance I might perhaps make a subtle, seemingly innocuous inquiry to confound their existing preconceptions and valiantly vandalize their internal ideological milieu with a favorable bit of irresoluble (within the bounds of permissible thought) perplexity).
You could always take out the "(unironic)" to free up space.
Two more questions, if you'll indulge me:
*I turned the option on for my profile because I just learned that it exists thanks to you. I'm not nearly as interesting, so I doubt anyone will miss out by sifting through my posting record. You on the other hand...
The world is full of diversity. For every radical far left progressive, you'd expect an equally radical far, uhh, right (?) libertAryan monarcho-pedofascist and absolute androsupremacist (unironic), public choice appreciator. So I believe you exist. I just don't think you make for a very effective revolutionary (though I may be reading far too much in your choice of the word comrade). As the 2022 midterms showed, you need to wrap good policy with palatable presentation, otherwise you just win the primary and lose the general.
You already confused me for being ironic even with it, so I don't imagine removing it would be productive.
For the moment I just really don't want people doing "I checked your post history and..." maneuvers on me. (If it were possible, I'd certainly allow you in particular access at the moment though as you seem benignly curious.) I'd rather be judged by my contribution (or lack thereof) to the present conversation.
Sure. I'm behind 7 proxies (or rather multiple onion nodes and a VPN).
I don't consider these banworthy as simple terminological reflections of my own ideology (and one is just a basic abbreviation, not inherently derogatory even if it's often used in that fashion), undirected towards anyone in particular and thus objectively not used in any particularly inflammatory fashion. The Motte is an open ideological forum, you see (and as an "Olmec" I am entitled to extra behavioral leniency in particular as well, not that I intend on abusing this), so the policing of mere diction preference in non-adversarial contexts is not in effect, I believe (otherwise the principles of neutrality and openness to a wide variety of viewpoints would be violated, and as we all know the trusty stewards of this fine garden would not violate their own expressed principles in any case).
Both, though the latter with much greater acknowledged probability. A man who gives up entirely on his dreams surrenders his soul as well though, so I can't fully discount the former.
Yes, I am definitely far-right. But I will clarify that though my public choice appreciation would nevertheless contribute to my practical beliefs about how I think any monarcho-pedofascism should be run, it is also a separate, uncontroversial, and fairly outcome (as opposed to process)-neutral political modus operandi that I inhabit as a backup in the quite plausible case that my primary preferred political program does not achieve much traction.
All of them are 100% genuine convictions, and I somewhat resent (for the courtesy of informing you that you may have mildly disturbed a boundary of mutual, thus far, respect, not in any feminine fashion) the comparison of them to "tide pod eating". That they fend off normies is a bonus though.
No more than 0.0001% seems reasonable to me, and again I'm confused by the question. Everything I describe as my preferred political beliefs/their contribution to the kind of polity they might create seems intuitively, unambiguously awesome to me, like if my political ideology were "free pizzaist everybody-has-lots-of-good-sex high GDP with advanced technologyitarian". I'm a far-right pedophile. Why would I reflexively be unhappy about getting my ideal world any more than anyone of any other political/sociological bent?
Not yet. Maybe never. But the most important revolution for man is always yet in his mind. Is there no beauty in truth if it be cruelly confined to contemplation? I believe there still is. In this manner I am wildly effective.
Luckily my nascent political movement is more in the "be (and maybe recruit) Internet weirdos" phase, not competing for any midterms. I'll be sure to count on your vote if we ever put candidate to ballot though.
Not exactly "entitled." We tend to be more lenient to people who are getting piled on for unpopular views. But only to a point.
("Femoid" as a general reference to females is pushing it, btw.)
Your faith in us is touching and I'm sure you'll remember this when/if you cross the line.
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You could abbreviate it to "pedofa" to save a few letters and really rustle some commie jimmies.
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I was definitely being facetious. Come on now.
Fair enough, though I can't say I've personally seen this maneuver being pulled on anyone else on this domain. If that's true for you as well, perhaps you should consider a change and see what happens. Although if you do do that and someone does pull the card, you would be ceding (virtual and unimportant) power and acknowledging defeat by relocking up your profile. This can easily get into many useless layers of abstractions of what is the higher/lower status move, so I'll just say that at the most fundamental level, I'd expect the most far-right action is to not lock your profile and let your enemy pull their hair out being outraged by what you write.
Hilarious. Do you ever worry that you may be doxxed not by IP but by your diction and syntax? Like how they analyze them Unabomber manifestos? This ties back to when I first asked you if you code switch in real life, though the answer is obvious in retrospect, because you have to if you want to keep a clear firewall between your unfiltered thoughts here and your avowed proclivity for being neither retarded nor suicidal.
I'm out of the loop. Do you go way back from before /r/themotte or something? I can't imagine your not being banned by Reddit admins though.
I'm not 100% certain I follow your parenthetical insertion, which by the way I expect an AI translator to struggle with. In any case, the comparison to tide pod eating was mostly in jest. The portion that wasn't mainly goes back to the use of "simple terminological reflections." I follow your stated logic for why you do it, and am obviously fascinated by this exchange as it does not occur on the regular with my unflaired social circles. It's just that, well, it's really quite provocative to just go out there and proudly declare yourself a pedophile. I'm sure you can appreciate the idea that if you gather up 100 internet shit posters who say in a text forum that they are pedophiles, that the odds are something like 50 are edgy teenagers for whom the definition isn't meant to apply, 25 are FBI sting operations, 10 are GPT spam bots gone
wildawry, 10 are actual pedophiles who may or may not be behind Tor looking to trade material, 4 have psychosis/schizophrenia, and 1 is a libertAryan monarcho-pedofascist and absolute androsupremacist (unironic), public choice appreciator. The base rate was to assume you're a troll and not take you at face value, no matter what you say.In recent months, Progressives have been famous for rendering their parent organizations ineffectual in achieving their actual stated goals thanks to purity tests, struggle sessions, in-fighting etc. Without knowing if/when you plan to rebalance your ratio for "Both, though the latter with much greater acknowledged probability", I'll state the obvious that your revolution will be severely set back by imposing purity tests that select only those who are as openly zealous about your values as you do. You already know this, of course. I just mean to note for the record that your revealed preference seems to have more or less "fully discount[ed] the former".
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