This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Grift Upon Grift
A white woman named Shiloh Hendrix took her child to the park.
What happened next is not totally clear. This is the only direct video evidence I could find, since so-called journalists are apparently allergic to providing direct links to original sources for direct evaluation (God forbid they should create a hyperlink to a source containing uncensored slurs I guess). In this video a man accuses Shiloh (who is holding her young child) of calling a black child a racial slur. She tells him that the black child was stealing from her son, and, uh, firmly invites the videographer to go away. Instead, he demands that she say the slur to his face. So she does, several times, and he tells her that the word is "hate speech." In some other places I have seen the video continue as he follows her to her car while continuing to berate her. (If there is actual video of her saying anything at all to the black child, I have not been able to find it.)
According to Shiloh's GiveSendGo,
As I write this, she has received $735,837 in donations, prompting some commentary. She hasn't been charged with any crime yet, but someone is considering it.
The "other side" of the story has been told... inconsistently, I guess. Also from the Yahoo writeup:
Several stories (but not all) mention the supposed autism; some add that the black child had three siblings keeping his parents busy at the time and was therefore unsupervised, explaining his reported misconduct as mere childish curiosity.
Well, hopefully Omar knows the boy's parents; after all, according to another news report Omar is the black child's uncle. Or is this a folksy "every man from Somalia is my uncle" sort of thing? Unclear! Incidentally, Omar was recently charged with felonious sexual misconduct, only to have those charges dropped for unclear reasons. Well, "in the interests of justice," whatever that means in this context:
In fact this doesn't actually state that the charges against Sharmake have been dropped, but everyone seems to think so. Presumably just one more piece of relevant information denied to me by the transformation of facts into culture war ammunition.EDIT: This link shows the documents dropping the charges.In response to Hendrix's GiveSendGo, the Rochester branch of the NAACP opened a GoFundMe and raised about $350,000 before closing it down (apparently at the behest of the black boy's family).
It's difficult to know how much to read between the lines, here, in part because the lines themselves are so blurry. Omar is apparently a single man and possible child sex offender who was filming at least one otherwise-unsupervised child at a public park. His story about how he is connected to the child is inconsistent. Given the current state of American politics with regard to immigration law, a family of Somalians deliberately avoiding the public eye seems well advised, but also raises further questions about broader demographic trends and the impacts of those trends. Meanwhile, Ms. Hendrix's unapologetic utterance of the killing curse has turned into a bit of a financial bonanza for all involved (except, apparently, Omar...).
Of course the culture war angles are attention-grabbing, and the toxoplasma of rage ever present. But at the risk of going full "boo outgroup," can I just say--I really, really hate crowdfunding? It seems like a horrible mistake, a metastasized version of the cancer of social media, virtue signaling with literal dollars that feed nothing but further grift. Regardless of their reasons, I'm thankful to the Somali family for shutting down the NAACP's grifting fundraiser as quickly as they did. I'm gobsmacked that Shiloh has managed to milk three quarters of a million dollars (and counting!) out of being accosted over a minor literal playground scuffle.
I mean, I get it--the money is tempting, and if you aren't getting yours, someone else will be more than happy to scoop it up "on your behalf." Racism is big business, for which the demand vastly outstrips the supply, and overtly slur-slinging white moms are... well, usually they're rapping or something, not dropping the honest-to-God Hard R. And on a child!
...for $750,000, though?
To be completely honest--I was irritated earlier this week because one of my social feeds was inundated with requests for money for some kid who was super sick and then died. Did he not have health insurance? Oh, no, he was insured. Why did he need $50,000 then? Well, his parents had to take some time off work, you know. Didn't they have paid family medical leave? Oh, well, yes, but you know how "incidentals pile up." Burials ain't cheap! And everyone was so heartbroken, because kids are so great! And this kid was great. Just brightened the room and everyone's lives. Obviously $50,000 isn't going to bring him back, or help his parents heal, but at least we can all show our sympathy and support... better than "thoughts and prayers," eh?
So probably I was kind of sensitized to this when I ran across the story of Shiloh and her anonymous (autistic?) antagonist. How many humans live out their lives by, ultimately, convincing lots of other humans to just bankroll them? How much of my frustration with these people boils down to a kind of deep-rooted envy, that I must labor while others take their ease, simply because I do not have a gift for grift?
As a matter of principle, I do not give money via crowdfunding. I don't even use Patreon, much less GoFundMe or GiveSendGo or whatever. I regard it as a moral failing when I see others do so, no matter how apparently worthy the cause. I am prejudiced against the entire enterprise, but I cannot rule out the possibility that it is because I have no expectation of ever benefiting from it--even though this is at least in part because I would feel like a charlatan if I did.
The most under discussed part of the saga seems to be that America has its own incipient Rotherham scandal where Somalis are given carte-blanche to rape at-risk American teenagers due to the authorities turning a blind eye to these crimes.
What happened in Rotherham occurred and occurs in every single Western country that experienced mass immigration. The only difference is that the peculiar ownership dynamics of the British tabloid press meant it achieved a degree of media attention it didn’t elsewhere, except to a much lesser extent in the Low Countries.
Are there any non-muslim immigrants doing this at scale? You don’t hear about the vietnamese or mexican rape gangs. You need the islamic peculiarities of :
Anyway, looks like germany will close the border so this insanity can finally end, or at least, not get worse.
Yes, I could have clarified ‘from the Islamic world’, but pretty much every Western country that has experienced mass immigration has experienced it from there too.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Uh, what percentage of teenage girls in foster care do you think get raped regardless of race? It's not just 'foster care is bad' level, it's 'a girl in foster care is unusually lucky if she's not sexually abused' level.
Probably a decent amount
How many are random kidnappings where the kidnapper invites a friend over so they can both rape the victim and then after police collect physical evidence of the rapes the DA drops the case?
Probably a lot lower…
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Yes. I clicked on the court documents and that's all the reason given: "In the interest of justice." No subject, no verb, just that phrase, which could mean anything.
Perhaps overly charitably: I wouldn't expect the DA to write "The victim recanted and we have no physical evidence", "We no longer believe the crime occurred", or even "We think the officer lied in their report" or anything like that which would disparage their case or work generally. I could imagine "In the interest of justice" could be a euphemism for cases that aren't exclusively covering up crimes that would raise a politically-charged rabble. But the less charitable reading seems viable as well.
I agree, for me it's just an example of frustrating wording, in a situation where a considerably more concrete reason seems appropriate.
If I had to guess what actually happened, it's that a teenage girl in foster care(and let's be clear here- she was a sixteen year old in foster care) ran away from her placement(and it was probably actually legitimately shitty), encountered this guy(who it seems like she already knew) who offered to let her stay at his place for a while after she complained and she accepted with full knowledge that that meant having sex with him(if we have any teenage girls reading this- an older male acquaintance who's willing to let you sleep over because you're mad at your guardians absolutely expects that), and she either got mad at him for whatever reason or wanted to get out of trouble for running away so she said he raped her.
Yes, survival sex with teenage runaways is bad behavior. But rape charges over it getting dropped doesn't require any other explanation.
It would still be rape to do it with a sixteen year old in a coercive situation.
More options
Context Copy link
Good God, I hope not.
Worry not. Teenage girls have other things to do.
Charge they phone, eat hot chip and lie, I assume.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I'm going to push back on this posited scenario slightly, although your guess could be spot-on. My guess: Runaway teen 16 year old girl, dude is himself somewhat aggressively flirty with her. She, having been perhaps exposed to unwanted attention at home (or expelled because whatever authority figure in the house found her too promiscuous, or whatever) is nevertheless not used to attention from non family males, and is thus receptive to a degree. He portrays himself as earnest, helpful, promises she'll be fine, come on, it's a few nights. Perhaps gives her a drink. Or something else. In the course of the evening he asserts himself physically, and of course she is now helpless and once again at the mercy of a shitty adult. Sex occurs, and because she is 16 and not particularly confident to refuse she lets it happen. The dismissive way he treats her after this encounter then reinforces in her mind that she has been used and manipulated.
She goes to the authorities. They hear her case but realize the can of worms that would be opened, and, short of anything but circumstantial evidence, her word against his, and faced with a shitshow where race will be a factor, they quietly gull her into dropping the whole thing. Maybe her family gets wind of it all, wishes to have no scandal (a raped daughter is hardly a trophy to be put on the mantle) and drop it.
In the interest of justice.
Or sure, maybe she was just a roller who he caught and kicked out and she tried to have him arrested. We don't know.
You can read the complaint here:
https://x.com/doctorretardphd/status/1918460928104006119
I think the original procurer / kidnapper / rapist inviting over his friend immediately so the friend can join the raping is probably what makes this a weird case especially since she didn’t know them prior. Plus there was a rape kit done plus physical evidence!
It is possible it’s just some poor runaway who just had a he said / she said situation but… I don’t think so given this is exactly how it went down in Rotherham et al.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
from my understanding via previous discussion here, "in the interest of justice" is stock language, and the dismissal of charges were announced by officials well before this viral incident occurred. I share concern that we're looking at the Rotherham pattern here, but if there's solid evidence for it, I haven't seen it yet.
One swallow doesn’t make a spring but it is a little interesting how you can pick up a teenager, rape her with your buddy, attempt to prevent her from leaving your rape den, have physical evidence support the victim’s story and then after three years the DA will drop the charges.
Like this is pretty much a slamdunk case if prosecuted swiftly… unless you’re pulling a Rotherham and ignoring rape cases where the perpetrators are Muslim.
https://x.com/doctorretardphd/status/1918460928104006119
Using the word "swallow" in the same sentence as one in which the word "rape" appears twice makes me uncomfortable for some reason.
More options
Context Copy link
I would describe that as pretty solid evidence for the Rotherham pattern. I'm now very interested in why they decided to drop the case.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link