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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   30402 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 21, 2022

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People being outraged that teams were prevented from wearing the OneLove armbands (to show solidarity with LBGTQ rights amid the backdrop of Qatari views on homosexuality) are ignorant, arrogant, and dogmatic. This is part of what other regions of the world mean when they say the west forces our values onto other people. You don't get to go into another region of the world for a sport as global as soccer and then shit on them for not sharing the same views as you. Not everything needs to be about activism. I don't have the stats, but I have to imagine most people are not in favor of gay marriage in the middle east and, as much as i am in favor of gay marriage, you have to respect that. I mean it wasn't even codified legally in the US until fairly recently. If you want to interact with other countries, you have to accept that they see things differently than you and have different values. This strikes me as being a strong instance of 'i am so open minded that i am close minded'.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-21/european-teams-won-t-wear-pro-lgbt-armbands-at-world-cup?cmpid=BBD112122_MKT

I disagree. If you invite the whole world to your country by voluntarily hosting the World Cup, you should expect the world to show up. If you do not want people in your country who do not conform to the rigid social taboos of your culture, you shouldn't host the World Cup.

Wearing an armband is not shitting on anyone's culture or forcing anything on anyone. Being annoyed when your invited guests wear innocuous armbands that are perfectly fine in their culture is rude.

That's a... very American way of thinking.

I'm European.

Also, OPs argument seems more American to me. "My house, my rules" and similar mindsets are very American and signals that famous rugged individualism. We in the old country are more graceful hosts IMO.

Like you know how brides bans certain colors for the guest clothes, or makes all their bridesmaids wear the same dress? A very American thing IMO.

In my experience Euro tolerance generally demands a baseline of tolerance and respect for the home culture, but within that anything is ok. But if you wandered in to Holland and went "Lol look at those fucking stupid wooden shoes, have you guys even heard of leather?" or France going "Hon hon hon, where's some slimy creatures I can pop in my mouth?" most people would be upset. Islam - particularly Arabic Islam - has seen homophilia as American imperialism for decades.

Yes, it would be rude for a guests in Qatar to walk around in drag and chant "Are there any men here ready to fuck!?". But that's pretty far from wearing an armband with a rainbow on.

You are going into a country which steadfastly refuses to tolerate homosexuality - which considers tolerance of homosexuality a deliberate attempt to diffuse their culture into western homogeneity - and displaying your contempt and disrespect for their culture on every arm.

A rainbow armband is not an expression of contempt and disrespect for Qatari culture. And once again: If Qatar doesn't want any rainbows anywhere, they can just not host the World Cup. Inviting people and then policing details in their dress is rude.

Why are you pretending you think this is about clothing? That it is simply a multicoloured strip of fabric signifying nothing? Or that your issue is their fashion policing being rude? You aren't stripping away ephemera to get down to the essence of the debate, you are stripping away the essence of the debate so you can get down to the ephemera.

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This is not, I'm afraid, relevant to Fruck's (accurate) judgement.

Like you know how brides bans certain colors for the guest clothes, or makes all their bridesmaids wear the same dress? A very American thing IMO.

Maybe it's American, but even in America that's frowned upon. The first one at least, the second one is given more leeway. But anyone who tries to tell guests what not to wear to a wedding is in instant bridezilla territory.

It's usually not spoken, but theres a pretty well established ban on non brides wearing white to weddings.

Yeah but the bride also isn't demanding people do that, it's simply the general custom.

I'm European.

So... an American vassal?

What do you think this adds to the conversation? At best, it is vapid and obnoxious; at worst, it is actively antagonistic.

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