This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Daily Mail is not the best sort of news outlet, but they are serving as additional confirmation that the birthday book exists and that the Trump letter is real. Also that Bill Clinton sent one as well. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14921905/Donald-Trump-sues-Wall-Street-Journal-MoS-reveals-Bill-Clinton-letter-Jeffrey-Epstein-birthday.html
Important parts
A lot of other people wrote letters
We don't know where the original book is at now.
The source says the book is real, the letters are real, but the evidence files themselves used contain facsimiles of them
This could be one of the funniest ways to confirm that the Trump letter is a real thing, a retaliatory leak against Clinton. Also suggesting that the Epstein files are a bit of a MAD situation going on with the parties and perhaps even other elites.
Off topic, but the hate the Daily Mail gets is surreal to me. They're literally no worse than any "respectable" media outlet.
I still remember when the admin of my videogame forum was killed, and the Daily Mail was the first to get the basic facts of the case right (board member obsessed with the admin's girlfriend decided to murder the hypothenuse) while "respectable" outlets like the BBC were talking about wargame fanatics and dark secrets. I got reverse Gell-Mann amnesia from that, and now trust the Daily Mail more than any other British newspapers.
I've seen it said that with your standard press-releases-as-articles, most papers will just chop it up a bit and regurgitate it. The Daily Mail will send someone round to interview neighbors for a juicy take on it instead.
More options
Context Copy link
Neat!
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link