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Why not have literal whores become politicians?
Directional whoring is pretty much the overtly default career of young (and not so young) women in the West. They dress skimpily, date industriously, engage in serial monogamy, and are not at all averse to material benefits resulting from these activities. Many women very aggressively argue that all sexual practices and all sexual conduct that does not harm any one party without their consent is nominally okay, and if you listen closely you'll notice that the valence of such conduct is actually considered very positive. That they sometimes turn around and viciously shame individual women for their promiscuity or sexual practices or material benefits derived from either seems more like pokerfaced opportunism than ideological inconsistency.
At the same time, politicians are widely known to be the scum of the earth. Eternally corrupt, consummate liars, shameless hypocrites, will sell out your country for a handful of cash and will ruin your life's work out of sheer incompetence. At best they're naive idealists who produce policy catastrophe after administration catastrophe, but let's face it, when people think "politician", they think either of morally bankrupt sociopaths looking to line their own pockets or of rabid ideologues aiming to stroke their egoes. Natural selection among politicians selects for the ability to out-smear your opponents, not for any sort of object-level competence or moral stature. Politicians are, by necessity, cheats and liars and if they weren't they wouldn't survive.
So why not have whores becomes politicians? Do we lose anything by this happening?
“Directional whoring?” That’s ridiculous and insulting.
None of my half-dozen female cousins are whoring themselves out. None have any overlap between their careers and their relationships.
That’s not because they’re all following the same script, either. One’s an accountant, another works for the government. A third got pregnant in college, but married the guy and started a stable family. She only has a job now that the kid is in school. Not exactly a gold digger.
What’s your justification for insulting the modal Western woman?
Actually, it's a typo.
And yeah, I was exaggerating. But what I stand by is this: I frequently hear women express sentiments that actually, promiscuity is good, being a camgirl is a completely normal job, and having a dozen boyfriends in one year and collecting gifts and favors from all of them on the way is par for the course and bystanders should politely not notice it. I very rarely (in fact, not in almost a decade by now) hear the opposite IRL.
And sure, #NotAllWomen. Seriously not. This behavior is not universal. But at least around me, nobody's calling anyone out on it.
The ability to do so on an online forum without getting ostracized, as would happen if I criticized a woman's weird ideological commitment to this kind of libertine behavior IRL.
Also, "sex workers" should not be discriminated in any way anywhere, and if they are, hypocritical men and indoctrinated/self-hating/brainwashed women are to blame, because it's only men who watch porn, and all men watch porn. They are victims, unless we decide that they actually aren't. Any man who expresses any viewpoint about the porn industry that isn't 100% supportive is just a thirsty loser garbage human. On the other hand, sex work should idealistically not exist at all, but it should be completely normalized in the intermediate period until feminism does away with it; at the same time, this should not give the impression to toxic men in any shape or form that it's normal for women to engage in sex work in exhange for money and that it's something that can be expected from cash-strapped modern women.
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I don't know that I've heard that IRL, though I do recall even in school there were lots of girls who expressed interest in marrying a man for the money, or in using sexual appeal to get things from men, while never expressing interest in the idea of actually loving a man.
I guess these motivations have been around forever, along with the more intrinsic motivations like intimacy, companionship, physical affection, etc. But it's surprising to me how the shoe has moved to the other foot and it's much more rare for me to hear discussions of intimacy, companionship, and physical affection as the core reasons people are looking for a relationship. "I would like to have children" has a strong constituency, but I'd argue that's still an instrumental reason to have a relationship. (But an important one!)
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With all due respect, they probably won't have many problems keeping you in the dark about if they are indeed doing so after all.
Then it’s not much of a “default career,” is it?
I think you’re defending the motte to Southkraut’s bailey.
Look, it's not much of a bailey. A bailey is a walled area one means to make use of. This is more of a wide open field I took a stroll through on a whim.
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Let's see the original claim:
For the sake of argument, would you realistically know about it if any of your female cousins did engage in such things?
Isn't "you can't know that it's not happening" more of an anti-argument; a discussion-stopper?
Again, I'm asking you to consider the social reality of living in modernity. If a woman engages in activities that she wants to keep private from men in her social circle who aren't their husband or long-term boyfriend, she can do so with little effort because the women in her social circle who do know about it, she can generally count on to assist her in this.
Okay, but what do we do with that? Where do we go from here? Shrug and move on to other topics?
You move on but keep it in mind.
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Are we Russel's Teapotting whoring now?
It’s just the reality of living in modernity. Let’s suppose you’re a Midwestern middle-class or precariat normie and you have female cousins. One of them lives in a different town and you’re on good terms; she’s known as an average decent young woman. However, in reality she has engaged in sugarbabying and escorting on multiple occasions while in community college. She’s also a serial monogamist / is in an open relationship with some cuck and has one-night stands. Maybe she’s also camwhoring from time to time. You don’t know about any of this because she’s discrete about it and your social circles are overlapping only partially. You’re ignorant about these activities as a whole because you’re a normie. The only way you’re realistically ever going to learn about her antics is if someone tells you about it. But who would? Your other female cousins or your mother definitely won’t reveal it to you even if they know about it. Her long-term cuck boyfriend if she has one isn’t going to talk about it to you either. What gives?
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With a little plausible deniability, a whore can already become Vice President of the United States. The list of male politicians who started their career as a catamite would also be interesting if we knew exactly who was on it.
This seems false to me. PUA's, incels, and feminists with MSM megaphones all agree that young women who are not sex workers are competing harder because they are competing for the attention of a minority of high-quality men (for various values of high-quality), not because they are trying to maximise the financial return on their dating life.
I knew "career" was the wrong word to choose and might lead to a misunderstanding, but I didn't take the time to work on it. "Lifestyle" might have been better. Or "Calling". The material rewards are not the main aspect here.
But the material rewards are what makes the difference between a slut and a whore.
There is an argument to be had about whether women are getting sluttier. (Survey evidence suggests they are not, but is not exactly reliable). But I'm pretty confident that they are not getting more whoreish.
That's fair, but besides the point. I won't quibble about the semantics. Call it whatever you like. It's not even necessarily that women behave in this way. What actually is central to my point is that by women's frequently stated (not necessarily revealed!) preferences and values, being a porn woman is actually perfectly normal.
At that point, I tried to illustrate how this state of affairs - porn women, whores, sluts, etc. being variably considered completely normal or abjectly dishonored - somewhat parallels how politicians are variably considered either specially honored members of the elite or the untrustworthy scum of the earth and enemies of the people, and somewhat sloppily tried to argue that if you side with the (relatively) positive view of whores and the negative view of politicians, then politics are hardly made worse by whores joining in.
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One manifestation of that are online complaints about the "Chopped Man Epidemic". Fascinating stuff from a culture warrior perspective.
For several years I've been suspecting and feeling that the majority of people in the West are ignoring the presence of quite a lot of female chauvinism, and the indoctrination into this position in many schools (often dominated by feminist teachers). Feminism itself and the creation of subtly or not so subtly misandrist attitudes that are passed down from mothers, aunts, grandmothers, are pretty much ignored as problems or excused somehow, because of "the patriarchy" or whatever else. Now it's Her Turn, etc.
I think it should be obviously true that the teaching of "women were oppressed by men throughout most history until recently and society remains male dominated", regardless of whether it's true or not, is going to result in the feelings that women as a group are the victim and deserve vindication, and that men as a group are guilty and should be sanctioned and put in their place in various ways. If you keep hearing that person A abuses person B and got away with it, you're going to be sympathetic to A and antipathic to B, right? And liberals would be very quick to complain if the media didn't obfuscate the race many violent criminals, precisely because they fear the effects on attitude that unfiltered news would have. They're much less worried about whether any sexism against men pops up, or about current dominations by the female gender of places and aspects of Western societies.
Am I onto something or am I talking gobbledygook...
And let’s also keep in mind that all of this is happening at the same time when rates of obesity, mental illness, hysteria, violence, alcoholism, antidepressant and prescription pill abuse and drug use in general have been rising among Western women for a long time.
What connection are you drawing and what do you think the mechanism might be?
What you described are factors eroding men's incentives to to fulfill their traditional masculine roles as initiators, providers, husbands etc. The factors I described do the same but in a different aspect. Potential rewards are decreasing while potential costs are increasing.
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I call this "Men, amirite?" It certainly turns up among the leftists and liberal women I have the unfortunance to interact with.
The attitudes don't get passed down by mothers and grandmothers, though, they get picked up from blogs and influencers and ticktocks and reddit and wherever else it is that women get their programming from.
The most downloaded app, as of today, is the Tea app. If you don’t know what that is, it’s a gossip forum for ‘red flags’ about individual men intended to Help Women Make Better Dating Choices.
The existence of this, and of the "Are we dating the same guy" Facebook groups, is further perfect proof that the 80/20 rule is true.
No, it’s proof of fearmongering campaigns succeeding at generalizing thé behavior of the bottom 20% of men.
As far as I can tell, the main factor in all of this is that women remember the disappointing experiences they had with men they are attracted to and the assume that such behavior is universal among men. I very mouch doubt the women who install and use this app ever even notice or interact with anyone from the bottom fifth of the male socio-sexual hierarchy.
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Had to check if this is a real word. It is not. :(
Yeah and there's constant double standards about this stuff. "Manosphere" and all that gets maligned like it's automatically slightly evil and should be combated. Bullshit harmful sources of programming for girls/women? crickets Just some concern about whether it's not quite girlbossy enough??
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