Hi folks,
Recorded this interview with Trace at Manifest last month. We talked about evolving cultural dynamics online, reforming the Democratic Party, and how small groups of people can have disproportionate influence on public policy. Also discussed is the impact of places like TheMotte, both as a crucible for ideas and as a training ground for future writers and leaders.
Given Trace's prominence and contentiousness here, I hope it might be of interest. Look forward to hearing what people think, and perhaps sparking some discussion. I've highlighted one point of disagreement I have with his ideas [thusly] in the transcript.
The video, Spotify/Apple Podcast links, and a full 'Patio11-style' transcript are all available here: https://alethios.substack.com/p/with-tracingwoodgrains-journalism
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's an odd shill (edit- as in, advertisement/solicitation) that advertises on the Motte with a claim that the Motte is a subject of conversation, but links to an article transcript that doesn't include the word.
FWIW, he asked us if it would be okay to post this.
We said yes, and warned him he'd probably be getting flack from Trace-haters.
There are Trace haters here?
Trace has history. In 2020, he was bothered by posts from FCfromSSC and others for posting views that they don't want to share a country with Trace or other Blue Tribers and that Red Tribe needs to not cooperate with Blues on problems they started (rioting, along with Rittenhouse, was a big topic at the time) and then he took issue with some dehumanizing rhetoric towards criminals like robbers calling them "scum" and "rabid dogs" and eventually announced that he was starting r/TheSchism along with another user with a bunch of numbers for a name that had his own reasons. I think this post is probably relevant there, too.
Some time later, the furry crossword hoax was pulled on LibsOfTikTok by Trace, and other comment history accumulated that was used against Trace by other users here. After the David Gerard article, Trace basically flamed out. He had a successful Twitter account at that point, and he didn't really need this place anymore.
I don't like how he exited and I think this place is worse off without him and I don't really agree with much of his reasoning about this site being bad that I've seen him post elsewhere, but I will give him that it must be pretty annoying to already be left of center in a space like this and then get multiple people who link 5 year old posts at him aggressively to tell him how wrong and hypocritical he is. The rules allowed the behavior, but it was too bad. Everyone makes mistakes, missteps in rhetoric, or failures to predict, and one weak spot of forums like this is that they're perfectly preserved, forever. I've seen the same kind of digging up of old posts impact other users here in a way that I don't find helpful.
Anyway, Trace is wrong, this place is way better than Twitter. I'd guess he gets more haters on Twitter, but they're of lower quality and he can snipe back as much as he likes.
Sorry for re-igniting old drama. If I characterized this wrong, let me know in the replies.
I'd be more bothered about people bringing up five year posts if the posters (or institutions) involved with them were willing to say "I don't believe that any more" or even "that's out of context" (along with an explanation if needed). I would agree that if that's the case, bringing up the five year old posts is crass and usually inappropriate.
But that's not usually what's happening when people bring up old posts here or on LW. (It often is in the outside world, of course.)
Looking into it again... maybe, yeah. The LibsOfTikTok thing was pretty relevant to bring up for that story in particular. Trace never disavowed the hoax, and then he wrote another thing that was sorta relevant to it. It is also noteworthy that Trace waged the culture war outside of this forum in a more real way than almost anyone who has ever commented here with the LibsOfTikTok thing.
Trace has a history of being, I dunno, mentally unstable in terms of his online persona, with TheSchism and then this swearing off of the site. Given those two actions, I think it's fair to say that he was never very in love with the principles of this site in the first place, a "fair weather friend". I'm not in disagreement that rules like the one we operate under can be a burden, and that sometimes, it's best to drop all pretenses of fairness and tell people to bugger off, but since this is a public forum and low effortposters and partisans naturally select themselves out and everyone else can only just... reply to your posts, it's not a huge problem. In contrast, Twitter sucks. I've tried it and I found a couple profiles I like other than Trace, but the format doesn't really lend itself to good conversation like a place like this does. Everything peters out, Trace is fickle at best at responding to his commenters, character limit, have to click many times to continue reading conversations, etc.
Oh well. If he wants to join the McDonald's of websites, the Universal Culture melting pot shitstorm and thinks it's better, what can I say? I guess it probably is better for him since he wants more exposure.
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