site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 8, 2025

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Well, when you thought the week was boring...

Charlie Kirk was just shot at an event, shooter in custody. There's apparently a video going around of the attack, but I haven't a desire to see it. People who have seen it are suggesting he was shot center mass in the neck, and is likely dead. That makes this the second time that a shooter targeted a conservative political figure at a political event in two years. If Trump hadn't moved his head at the last second, it would've been him, too.

I've never followed the young conservative influencers much, but Kirk always seemed like the moderate, respectable sort -- it's wild that he would be the victim of political violence and not someone like Fuentes.

I fear this is what happens when the culture war is at a fever pitch. Political violence in the US is at heights not seen since the 1970s, from riots in the 2010s and especially 2020 over police-involved shootings, to the capitol riot in 2021, to the attempted assassination of Trump in Pennsylvania, to the United Healthcare killing, to finally this murder of a political influencer. I fear for my country when I look at how divided we are, and how immanently we seem to be sliding into violence.

I guess I just find politics tiring nowadays. I vote for a Democrat and they do stupid things that conspicuously harm the outgroup. I vote for a Republican and they do stupid things that conspicuously harm the outgroup. Whether J.D. Vance or Gavin Newsom wins in 28, there will be no future in which Americans look each other eye to eye.

I actually believe things are much better in this country than people think: our economy is surprisingly resilient, we've never suffered under the kind of austerity that's defined post-colonial European governance, our infrastructure, while declining, actually functions in a way that most of the world isn't blessed with, our medical system is mired in governmental and insurance red tape yet the standard of care and state of medical research is world-class, our capacity to innovate technologically is still real and still compelling, and one of our most pressing political issues, illegal immigration, exists solely because people are willing to climb over rocks and drift on rafts simply to try and live here.

We have real problems. And intense escalations on the part of our political tribes are absolutely in the top five. We also have a severe problem with social atomization -- and these two things are related -- which has led to our intimate relationship and loneliness crisis, the rapid decline in social capital, and the technological solitary confinement of the smartphone screen which dehumanizes people like real solitary confinement while confining them to the most intense narrative possible. "If it bleeds, it leads" means that many will be led into bleeding.

I don't know how we rebuild the world, or come to a point where Americans of different views can view each other as well-intentioned. But Kirk is just the latest victim of a crisis that I don't know if there's any way to solve.

You think you hate TMZ enough, but you don't.

The office at TMZ can be heard loudly clapping and cheering live when the news that Charlie Kirk has died comes through

I'm allowed to say you should hate those people right? That's specific enough? With enough evidence? You can hate the people at TMZ you can hear loudly clapping and cheering the death of a husband, father and Christian? It's not more heat than light to make sure people know that's what TMZ is? That every time you see an article at TMZ, it's important to remember they would cheer your death.

I don't see any evidence other than the timing that the cheering was connected with Kirk's death. However, if it was, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Plenty of people on both sides of the culture war feel happy when members of the other side die.

I know that you would almost certainly not publicize a video of right-wingers cheering the death of some leftist figure, so I take your comment as being tribalism rather than as an attempt to shed light on things.

Nah, this is actual psycho behavior. If you told me my most hated outgroup influencer or politican got shot my immediate, gut reaction is "Oh, no! They're going to be insufferable after this."

This is because America is still in a talking battle. When we hear that "someone shot up a campaign event", most partisans will hope that their side was the one being attacked. Because that gives them a powerful story, and free reign to attack the outgroup as bad. Most partisans don't want to be in the position of having to explain why the rest of them shouldn't be blamed because one guy went and did something horrible.

You openly cheer for the deaths of people that you are in physical battle with. Where PR and optics are a negligible concern compared to who is left standing to write the history.

So what does it mean if the staff at a mainstream media company like TMZ think that they are in a war to the knife with Charlie Kirk?

They're claiming it was unfortunate timing:

We want to address something that happened during our TMZ Livestream coverage of the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

As Harvey and Charles were reporting the developments in our newsroom, there were employees in another part of the building watching a car chase.

The people watching that car chase began laughing and clapping in reaction to what they were seeing, but we want to make it clear ... they were not cheering in response to the assassination.

Nevertheless ... watching a car chase at that moment was tone deaf, and the sounds of laughter at that crucial moment were totally out of line.

We apologize to anyone who heard that as we were in the middle of covering such a tragic story.

I have no idea who or what TMZ is, so I have no opinion one way or the other if this is true, but it's only fair to give them a chance to reply.

The people watching that car chase began laughing and clapping in reaction to what they were seeing

That's either an insultingly implausible lie, or insane enough that it has to be true.

I mean, there are lots of "funniest car chases" and clips from police arrests online, it's not impossible someone was sharing "you gotta see this" and people were laughing and clapping because it was so stupid and entertaining that way. Just really unlucky timing.

Same with Jezebel and their "tee-hee, we got a witch to curse Charlie Kirk!" story. Published 8th September, since taken down. Probably because of stuff like this:

For the "POWERFUL HEX SPELL," I had to provide Kirk's date of birth for "accuracy." The witch performed the hex, but her response was unsettling: "I just completed your spell, and it was successful. You will see the first results within 2–3 weeks."

Same with Jezebel and their "tee-hee, we got a witch to curse Charlie Kirk!" story. Published 8th September, since taken down.

That one was pretty hilarious, and I honestly wish their editorial team had leaned into the "OH GOD THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO WE SWEAR" angle rather than the sanitized corpo-speak disclaimer they put up. Y'all had horrendously unfortunate timing, own it.

It also is absolutely going to give encouragement to those who are convinced witches are doing genuine harm (I don't believe spells work, but I also think mucking around with the occult like that is not a good idea either).

So congrats, Jezebel, you have now restoked the Satanic Panic.