This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Apparently some stuff has been happening with Luigi Mangione lately; the front page of reddit is filled to the brim with pictures of the guy, and today I saw posts showing part of his arrest video (full video here, but does not contain the full arrest), and finding that he had a ticket for a bus to Pittsburgh on the night of the shooting, and also that the bullets in the bag were what made him a suspect for the CEO killing.
I am seeing some commonalities in all these threads: either hedged understanding/support for Mangione's actions, outright support, and extreme skepticism of the police along with claims that Mangione was framed or otherwise dastardly policing tricks were pulled on him. Police misconduct claims include that the backpack with gun and manifesto was planted on him and that they used an illegal method to find him, yet are claiming that an anonymous caller recognized him and tipped them off.
I find it interesting how pervasive these claims are. My own brother actually has told me that the backpack was likely planted on Mangione, (part of a wider array of left-wing conspiracy theories; he also was the first I'd seen state that the Trump assassination was one random attendee shooting another random attendee and accidentally wounding Trump, then later stating that it was the teleprompter glass that injured him, not the bullet itself). It's true, it's a little hard to believe that a murder suspect would keep such dangerous incriminating evidence on him in the face of a nationwide manhunt. However, I think a murderer might not make moves that someone might expect them to, and I also think that police officers have to be cautious in following the rules when it comes to the entire U.S. news media and also defense lawyers watching their every move carefully.
The thought strikes me that this is probably going to be
one of the most televised court affairs since Rittenhouse.apparently not televised since it's in federal court, but everything that comes out will be highly scrutinized, at least. This time, for the first time in many years, it seems that this is a more Left-aligned murder trial. I desperately hope he gets convicted, but anything could happen. There are many ways he could get acquitted, including plain-and-simple jury nullification, which is definitely a possibility on account of his popularity.What does the dog do when it catches the ambulance? Mangione had a reasonable enough plan for fleeing the scene, but does he really strike you as the sort that would be able to abandon his life, leaving the assassination behind him? His motive was personal - back problems that weren't covered by insurance? - and it's not like he had a hideout to run off to and remain in. Consider the scenario where he didn't get caught - would this individual be able live as a fugitive, abandoning being an upper-middle-class 20-something college-educated techie? It seems like he didn't really know what to do after shooting Brian Thompson and evading the police. Luigi Mangione isn't Agent 47, he doesn't have another hit lined up in Milan or Monaco after this one, and there's no patron helping him escape. Compare to Assange or Snowden - Assange had a country provide him asylum for seven years (!!) and Snowden made it two countries over before getting his passport revoked!
Edit to add: I don't see much difference between Luigi Mangione and Tyler Robinson - to a first approximation, they both seemed to have assumed that they would just disappear under the cover of the next news cycle, and instead were both the subjects of nationwide manhunts.
I don't think the Snowden or Assange comparisons make sense. You have to be on-site to shoot someone, whereas leaking documents to the press can be done from anywhere. In fact, afaik Assange has never been to the United States.
That said, while I do think escaping after a successful assassination is actually-difficult, it really does look like Mangione and Robinson were both basically retarded in their attempts. You don't just waltz off to McDonald's while you're still hot. And you definitely don't watch someone else get caught by going to McDonald's while they're still hot, make a joke about it in your Discord, then run off to the much-safer sanctuary of Dairy Queen instead.
More options
Context Copy link
Why would you do that? Either they have enough evidence on you to catch you or they don't. I would just go back home and act like nothing had happened. After about two weeks, I figure either they have the evidence to catch you and you're in jail, or they don't and you put it out of your mind and never tell anyone.
Unlikely, the odds are very much against you, the only ‘smart’ move is to use your head start to get as far away as possible and then blend into a new life, like that American guy who hid in Wales for 20 years. Even stuff like AI facial recognition on public sector camera footage (outside any federal building, on an officer, a police car, in any government office, facility, bus station, subway station, outside a court, a school etc) is going to be much more common as those things increasingly feed into centralized FBI systems. The further you go, the less likely you trip some kind of alarm (the way the would-be Welshman did).
More options
Context Copy link
So basically grab a Big Mac and wait for the whole thing to blow over?
Fair. I thought someone said he'd been mooching around all over the place contemplating whether he should kill someone else.
That doesn't fit the profile at all, though - aimlessly contemplating and carrying out multiple murders is more of a school shooter thing, no?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link