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PaperclipPerfector  1d ago (text post)   3426 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 22, 2025

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There are multiple schools of LLM opposition, with different concerns that lead to different levels of tolerance. One, which the current policy as you understand and implement it does address, is the one about effort asymmetry - "why should I read and parse a post in good faith if it was generated in a click" etc.; another, though, which I am increasingly coming around to, is more about some sort of neurolinguistic programming Lovecraftian corruption aspect, where you can see an LLM flavour to the writing style, the narrative structure, or even the underlying thought process even if the text was composed by a human using "LLM help", or perhaps just by a human who has spent too much time interacting with LLMs at all. For the latter group, "I edited it myself" may be as reassuring as "I am a human, not a pathogen" coming from a terminal plague victim shambling towards you.

I agree that it is a mistake to assume that people complaining about LLM-usage are monolithic or homogeneous.

When I object to LLM usage, I would point to aspects like:

  • Lack of effort/spam/false engagement
  • Factual inaccuracies
  • Being boring to read (less important than the first two)

At the risk of flattering myself, I think these are the "reasonable" reasons to disapprove of specific examples or LLM outputs as a whole. But I haven't made any of those mistakes, which is why I consider myself misunderstood rather than someone cheating their way into the discourse.

Well I can say that this latest post was super-boring to read -- you say that this is not so important to you, which is kind of a weird thing for somebody who wants to be a writer to say. Unless you are writing strictly for your own entertainment, in which case there seems no need to make the product public?

In any case, given that you consider a boring end product undesirable to at least a certain degree, maybe consider the extent to which the LLM's "help" with your writing was actually having the effect of making it more boring to read before "writing" any more of these pieces?

I disagree, I don't think it was boring at all, surprisingly this was the first I've heard of China's new Free Trade experiment.

The topic is interesting enough, but you’ve been here long enough that it didn’t feel like the man’s usual writing.

Fair enough, with that I agree, it did feel slightly "off".

It wasn't horribly boring, just repetitive. Whatever the LLM wrote seemingly wasn't edited thoroughly enough, so the post kept re-stating the same few points over and over again.

1:

If you process those goods there, adding just 30% value under the Free Trade Port's eligibility and supervision rules, you can sell them into mainland China with zero tariffs

2:

Under the new Hainan rules, the flow looks like this:

  • Import raw materials or components into Hainan (Tariff: 0%).
  • Do "processing" in Hainan that increases the value by 30%.
  • Ship the finished product to Shanghai (Tariff: 0%)."

3:

The 'core purpose of the Hainan FTP is what we might call the 30% Loophole

4:

The '30% value add' rule effectively turns Hainan into a giant mixing vat. You pour in global commodities, stir them with Chinese labor (which is still cost-competitive for high-skill work), and pour out a 'Hainan' product

Etc. And this is just one example.

Well I can say that this latest post was super-boring to read

Agreed. Possibly part of the problem is that low-effort top level posts are disfavored. A long boring post might be boring but at least it gives the (possibly false) impression that it required some effort.

I don't think the draft would have been too exciting either, on top of lacking polish. It's a dry topic. China opened a new free trade zone. Nobody has been shot, yet. Even the Taiwan connection is tenuous.

I'm sure someone could make it exciting, that someone might not be me. I settled for accurate journalism with Chinese characteristics. Any more "spice" would have been the less palatable kind of Yellow Journalism.

In any case, given that you consider a boring end product undesirable to at least a certain degree, maybe consider the extent to which the LLM's "help" with your writing was actually having the effect of making it more boring to read before "writing" any more of these pieces?

Of course. Have I ever struck you as being not into introspection or lacking self-awareness? I have a lot of things written that I haven't shared because I think my own output or with LLM support didn't make it worthwhile.

I have seriously spent time considering that. My takeaway is that the answer is no. LLMs aren't the best at making things exciting or novel (not that they can't do it at all), so what I mostly rely on them for is to take something I think I've done well, then re-arrange, proofread and edit. Most of their suggestions go in the waste bin. Sometimes they do actually say things that make me sit up and go huh, not bad, and those are worth stealing.

You've raised a valid point, speaking generally, so I can only beg the benefit of doubt that I thought of it too.

Have I ever struck you as being not into introspection or lacking self-awareness?

Must... not... make... obvious zinger...

As I said to the wizard last night while he was measuring out collateral fireball damage...

Do it.

Of course. Have I ever struck you as being not into introspection or lacking self-awareness?

Kind of? You are getting quite a lot of feedback right now that this particular writing is worse than your less-LLM-inflected (infected?) pieces, and are continuing to bluster on about how great it is.

I'm sure someone could make it exciting, that someone might not be me. I settled for accurate journalism with Chinese characteristics.

So why are you doing it? Is there some shortage of actual journalism about China that needs addressing so badly that boring prooompted longposts on the Motte are required?

You could always, like -- write about something that isn't boring?

Kind of? You are getting quite a lot of feedback right now that this particular writing is worse than your less-LLM-inflected (infected?) pieces, and are continuing to bluster on about how great it is.

I disagree with this feedback, to some extent. That is a matter of taste as well as principle. I am usually quite more corrigible.

So why are you doing it? Is there some shortage of actual journalism about China that needs addressing so badly that boring prooompted longposts on the Motte are required?

Because this essay is less boring than the original Reuters article? Being less boring is not the same as being exciting. This one has greater than zero jokes in it.

It is, for what it's worth, not a prompted post in the standard sense. I also wanted to hear what the better informed have to say, and providing a basis for discussion makes me feel the mission is accomplished. George W. Bush approves.

That doesn’t seem fair. For the world’s biggest rising country and the greatest threat to the American-led world consensus to break with its own economic model and institute effectively a freeport on its own territory seems like big news.

He's the one who said it was intrinsically boring! If the LLM made something super-interesting super-boring instead, he should definitely not be using it!

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