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To be blunt, a lot of the complaints on here are men getting to see what it was like from the female point of view over those centuries of "no free choice for you but men can sow their wild oats and they decide if they finally want to marry at age forty".
My God, any potential mates are out there having sex, commitment-free sex, and are economically independent, plus picky about who they'll eventually settle for? They have options and freedom and exercise those options? How appalling!
Shoe on the other foot here, gentlemen, and very funny to see the solution being "force them to marry!". To take the example of one comment above, about "being this person is so disadvantageous in marriage, you are recommended not to marry" - if you're 34 and not married by that age, what is wrong with you? why so picky? why not get married straight out of high school (as some suggest women should be steered into it) and have your mother pick your potential spouse for you?
Would you say that those men were acting in a noble and becoming manner? If yes, good riddance to you. If not, then you should ponder why you feel the need to giggle about men (who have never lived in that world or acted in that way) getting a taste of medicine.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If, sixty or so years ago, women en masse had decided to be rampant whores but the continent and socially responsible men had refused to dally with the trollops, we wouldn't be having this conversation about "women: why aren't they getting married and pumping out babies?"
It takes two to tango, as they say, and men were delighted to have free milk but not have to buy the cow. Now buyer's regret has set in? Ah well, such is life!
...men who no longer exist and do not complain about this topic today (or maybe they do in their nursing homes). I guess I don't get your point. Because some people were shitty back then it justifies other people doing shitty things today?
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While the historical double standard is real, it was supported by widespread prostitution, not a one sided hookup culture. Seduction was literally a crime in these societies.
Yes, there were a handful of artists and very wealthy men who got away with it. They get away with statutory today(see Epstein et al), which is the actual equivalent(remember, the concept of a 'teenaged girl' as a box a young woman might fit into is actually very recent- most historical languages had equivalent terms which meant 'unmarried young woman' and they had similar legal rights and protections).
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I highly highly doubt that in centuries past any significant percentage of men lived this sort of playboy life. This strikes me as typical feminist BS where the experience of the average woman is compared to that of men who are extraordinary in terms of fortune and social status.
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What they are missing is both knowledge and responsibility. Current women are not good at evaluating their worth on the dating market.
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This has never been the vast majority of men. You're hyperfocused on the top ten to one percent of men who have the luxury to do this.
Looking back at the past three generations of men on my father's side, not one of them did this, my father included.
The vast majority of men really are invisible to women, huh.
I've spent the past ten years trying to get together a job and a life that can actually support a family. So far it's been an utter failure, for one reason or another.
No sane woman would want to marry me.
I never received any attention from woman in high school.
Funny story my family had over Christmas dinner. My mother was commenting on how she was bragging to her hair dresser about how good her two sons are(myself and my brother), referencing all the things we do for her in terms of managing the household and all the special things we like to do one around the holidays. The hair dresser, in turn, apparently regaled to my mother how worthless her various relatives were regarding such things and how much of a pain they were.
And it couldn't help but occur to me, listening to this, that at no point during this entire conversation these two women apparently had, was there the wherewithal or instinct or desire to go 'Hey, I have/you have these two, single, adult men - I have/you have these single relatives, why don't you/I get them together as a social date and see if anything clicks'.
I'm beginning to wonder just how many generations of women have failed their sons by this point.
So you're happy to be linked with a worthless woman who doesn't manage the household or do anything in regards to family bonds or much of anything at all? Because unless you mean "hairdresser's worthless male relatives" (which is what she was complaining about) and "me and my brother", I don't see this working.
Your mother was boasting of her filial sons. Her hairdresser was talking about how the guys in her family were not like that. If you think that out of that "hey, we both have unattached male relatives, let's get them together and see if anything clicks" is what you want in order to get married to a woman and have kids with her, I don't think it'll work.
If you want to marry a hairdresser or woman of that social class, nothing is stopping you going to a hairdresser's salon and trying to find out if any of the women there are single.
That's totally inappropriate and you know it.
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The hairdresser in question was referring to the woman and men in her family.
I bring this up as a point because, presumably, she might very well have single, available family members looking to get married.
At not one point did my mother inquire about this, at no point did the hairdresser in question volunteer.
Your confidence in my social acumen is staggering.
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Quite possibly that happened, your picture was shown; your job and height were stated; and you were rejected without being made aware of it. The dirty little secret is that single women who report difficulty finding relationships are almost uniformly super-picky.
Yeah, I made this point independently. Feminists (in fact most women) tend to engage in the "fallacy of the peak," in which they compare average women to super-elite men.
Hah. You don't know my mother. No, I'm fairly certain this didn't happen in the slightest. I don't even beleive she has a picture of me to show, come to think...
You are quite correct on the rest of it, though.
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