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Why do a lot of women not like acknowledging the practical aspects of dating? By this I mean that women appear to be put off by me simply discussing:
Of course I'm not discussing these topic with women I'm trying to actually date, I'm not that autistic. But if you're trying to actually find a partner to settle down and have kids with, how do you not take all of these into account? Not only does it reek of impracticality, but on an even deeper level, it appears that any attempt to practically model the dating world at all produces a negative female reaction.
(Maybe it's because some of these women don't ever intend on having kids and therefore don't ever have to be realistic about dating.)
Because you're saying "yes, men do only want tits'n'ass".
EDIT: Also, you are strongly signalling "as soon as you turn 30-40, I'm dumping your wrinkly ass for a hot 20 year old, and forget that you are the mother of my children. I can have better kids with Baddie, anyway!" Your SMV has declined, it only makes sense to offload a depreciated asset and invest in a rising stock!
No. Men obviously want T&A. But it ain’t the only thing. I wouldn’t have probably been interested in my wife if she was an uggo but I didn’t marry her just because she looked (and still does) great in a tank top. That is, if people are honest there are non romantic truths about attraction that matters but it doesn’t mean the romantic things don’t matter either.
Regardless if it’s the only thing or not, the male penchant for T&A is the necessary residual complement to female hypergamy for heterosexual relationships to form.
To paraphrase one comedian’s bit (I couldn’t recall the comedian’s name or find a video after a brief search):
Women complain that men only want T&A, but what do women want?
Someone taller than them, stronger than them, richer than them, smarter than them, funnier than them, braver than them.
So if I get with a girl, it’d be someone who’s shorter than me, weaker than me, poorer than me, dumber than me, more boring than me, more cowardly than me. What’s left for me? Has to be the T&A, right?
That guy could get with a girl taller etc. than him, but he won't. Because his poor little fee-fees would be hurt that she's taller, better, etc.
It's long been a trope that men won't marry smart women, so pretend to be dumber than you are. Not too much dumber, just enough that you can gaze adoringly at him and murmur "Wow, Clemence, you are so smart!" so his little ego will puff up and he feels you truly get him and understand him.
That’s just the classic cope and shaming tactic to try and salvage women’s Wonderfulness and #BossBabe status. It’s definitely not that women want a daddy they can choose; it’s that men are just too shitty and insecure to handle taller, “better,” etc. women.
Men are fairly agnostic to female height, in contrast to the colossal female preference for tall men. I don’t doubt there’s some segment of men who prefer shorter women so that he’s taller than her (when she’s in heels, that is, as that’s how women see height). However, there’s also a large segment of men who prefers taller-than-average women because he likes long legs on chicks or because he doesn’t want to doom a potential short son.
And ultimately, all else equal, men will look to expend less time and social capital on taller women, as men know with greater probability taller-than-him-when-she’s-in-heels women will reject and perhaps gloatingly dab upon them.
It’s telling that men don’t leave well-poisoning quips in their online dating bios like “don’t bother if you’re over [height],” whereas it’s pretty common for women to disclaim “don’t bother if you’re under 6’0” or shorter than me in heels.”
And why don't women want guys "shorter than me in heels"? Because guys shorter than them tend to be insecure about it. We can both go in circles about "men are whiny/no, women are whiny".
Short guys don't, in general, want women very much taller than them and tall women have a tough job finding men tall enough to date them.
I'm well aware that online women have basically infinite stamina when it comes to blaming men for women's preferences in their forever war to defend women's Wonderfulness. I'm also well aware that the evidence overwhelmingly supports the "Women Want a Daddy They Can Look up to" hypothesis over the "Men are Just Shitty and Insecure" hypothesis.
A consistent finding in the academic literature is that women care much more about male height than men care about female height. As one paper summarizes in its title: "Women want taller men more than men want shorter women."
"Women want taller men more than men want shorter women" is actually underselling it. This paper with the same first author uses North American speed-dating results (so revealed preferences through "yes/no" for willingness to match). There's a clear directionality in women preferring tall men and men taller than themselves. To the extent men care about women's height, it's a mild preference for average height women over very short or very tall women—and possibly for tall women over short women.
The fitted curves in Figure 4b illustrate this pretty simply and cleanly. Average height women (165 cm, or 5’5”) performed the best in men's evaluations, receiving about 48% "yes"s. The tallest women, binned to 175 and 177.5 cm (5’9 and 5’10 or taller, respectively), are penalized all the way down to... a "yes" rate of 45%. The shortest women, binned to 152.5 and 155 cm (5’0” or shorter and 5’1”, respectively), also received a "yes" rate of about 45% or so. On the other hand, it's Mendoza Line vs. MVP-caliber for men, where the yes rate is 20% for men 165cm (5’5”) or shorter, rising to about 32% by 180cm (5’11”), to about 37% by the 192.5 cm (6’4”) or greater bin—a monotonic increase throughout. For men, taller is always better, shorter always worse throughout the bins shown. Across all height spectrums women got more "yes"s than men.
Figure 5 is an amusing complement to Figure 4b. This time it shows evaluations based on male-female-pairing height differentials.
Using the curve that was fit, men most preferred women who were about 5 cm shorter than them, giving a "yes" response about 47% of the time to such women. For women 15 cm or more taller than them, this drops to a whopping... 44% or so. Ugh, stupid men and their insecurities punishing women 15 cm taller than them by a whole 3%. Men need to feel big next to a woman to feel secure so they gave “yes” responses to women 15 cm shorter than them at a skyhigh rate of… 46%. This only declines further to 44% for women 25 cm shorter than them, matching the figure for women 15 cm taller than them or more.
In contrast, women most preferred men who were about 25 cm (10 in) taller than them, at a "yes" rate of about 34%. For men at their height, this drops down to about 24%. For men 15 cm shorter than them or more, this drops further to about 13%. The increase is linear from the -15 cm bin to 15 cm before—while the increase continues—diminishing returns start to kick in. Similar story with Figure 5 as to Figure 4b. Women care a lot more about male height than vice versa. If anything men reward rather than penalize much taller women, and penalize rather than reward much shorter women.
Interestingly, the highest point estimate attained was that of men giving a 59% or so yes rate to women 15 cm taller than them. While it could be a statistical artifact, perhaps there is indeed a population of short kings out there looking for some snu-snu or hoping that a potential son doesn't suffer the same fate. On the flip side, Male "yes"s for women start declining after 5 cm on the curve, 7.5 cm if using point estimates, again suggesting a slight aversion to women they tower over.
Thus, the evidence is peskily inconsistent with the hypothesis that women's revealed preferences for tall/taller men is due to shorter men being Shitty and Insecure, as men's own revealed preferences don't even express such a mirrored preference for short/shorter women. However, it's peskily consistent with the hypothesis of women wanting a daddy they can look up to, someone who makes them feel like powerless children.
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You can find a lot more men willing to date taller women than women willing to date shorter men. Just like how being fat tends to impact a woman's attractiveness much more than a man's. Both sexes can be shallow, but because they are different they are shallow in different ways.
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Yeah, it definitely seems like women are a lot more hung up on height than men. And I agree that when men do go for shorter women, it's more of a response to anticipated female preference an independent preference.
The same is true for other things, such as career accomplishment. At some level, a lot of men know that if the woman can't look up to him, there's a big risk that she will lose interest.
Ultimately, we are dealing with two hypotheses: The "fragile male ego" hypothesis (men have a strong need to feel superior to their female partners); and the "anticipated female hypergamy" hypothesis (men are reluctant to enter relationships where the woman will feel superior).
Here are a couple of thought experiments:
Suppose there's a short guy (let's say 5'7") at a bar or a night club who's looking to have a good time. A tall girl (let's say she's 5'9") approaches him and expresses sincere interest in going back to his place to have some fun together. Is he going to turn her down due to her height? Of course not.
Of course one could argue that this is just a quick fling, and for quick flings men care more about sexual release than their need to feel superior to the woman. So let's change the thought experiment a bit:
Suppose there's a short guy (let's say 5'7") at a bar or a night club who's looking to have a good time. He has a choice been approaching a tall girl (5'9") or seeking out someone shorter than him. What will he do? In that case, there's a very good chance that he won't bother approaching the tall girl and will instead go for someone short.
Ok, so why does the man's attitude change from "totally DTF" to "next!" depending on whether or not he's the one doing the approaching?
The obvious and simple explanation is the "anticipated hypergamy" hypothesis is in fact correct. And I'm pretty confident that most men would be open to dating a woman who is taller than them; more accomplished than them; etc. provided the man believes that the woman is sincerely into him and she is otherwise desirable.
To an extent I agree, but I think part of this is that (1) in online dating, men are in a much weaker bargaining position than women so they are reluctant to openly and categorically rule out prospects; and (2) men are aware at some level that due to female in-group bias, a woman will be turned off by any firm qualification rules, even if she meets the qualifications. So for example, if a man belongs to Race X, and he sees a woman's dating profile which says "No men from Race Y! Race X preferred," the man is going to be happy about it. He will think he has a leg up with with this woman. By contrast, if a woman belongs to Race X, and she sees a man's dating profile which says "No women from Race Y! Race X preferred," chances are that if she interacts with the guy at all, it will only be to tell him what a racist jerk he is.
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