This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Sometimes I wonder if there's a cultural disconnect here. When I go into big blue cities and encounter transgender people, they're usually just awkward people trying to live their lives. When I encounter them out in the sticks, they're frequently weirdos who seem hellbent on making me a non-consensual participant in their fetish.
Is it possible the "transgender intolerance" of the right is a self reinforcing feedback loop? The sane transgender people move to the cities where they're more accepted, which makes them look better to the people there, but leaves the bad actors out in the country where they get off on making other people uncomfortable? Which in turn makes the people out in the country less tolerant?
That's the problem, and it's not easy to solve. If the activist groups would agree that "Okay, that is just a guy with a fetish and not really transgender", then most of the opposition would be cut off at the knees. But they can't say that, because (a) they don't want to be seen as throwing anyone under the bus (and I can sympathise there, it'd be nice if only the most acceptable people could be the poster children for the cause, but the awkward barely-passing types are valid too) and (b) the ideology has gone beyond "born in the wrong body" and on the extremes has spiralled into "smash the notion of gender completely" and "if you say you're a transfemme masc-presenting non-binary agender queer folx then only you can judge what you are" so the weirdoes and grifters happily take advantage of that.
Their only defence, when any individual case goes beyond the beyond, is "well that person was only faking being transgender" which is no good when they're simultaneously demanding "trans women don't owe you femininity" and self-identification with fifty labels slapped on is the only measure to go by. "This person with a beard and a penis wearing sparkly eyeshadow and stilettoes is a real trans woman, that person with a beard and a penis wearing sparkly eyeshadow and stilettoes is only faking it".
More options
Context Copy link
I think you are running into an Activist vs Lay-folk difference. I'll grant that the Trans-movement as a disproportionate number of activists. The awkward people trying to live their lives are the lay-folk, the hellbent weirdos are the activists. What you are noticing is my theory that activists are essentially always "on" there is always a war to be fought, every space needs to be "decolonized from cis-heteronormative oppression". And when you are out in the sticks, to them this is the battlefield, sticks are generally more conservative, more "heteronormative". So like guerilla warriors they raid the commons. Trans-folk in big blue cities aren't behind enemy lines.
This is all from personal anecdotes because I used to live in a big blue city and now I live in a small purple city surrounded by red-sticksvilles. So sometime I encounter trans-activists, sometimes I encounter trans-folk. The activists are almost always from sticksvilles any they can't turn it off. It makes them very unpleasant to be around.
More options
Context Copy link
Trans as a category is muddled beyond belief. Progs keep asking if normies wouldn't wanna fuck whatever heavily made up chiselled Jailey Bay fuckdoll gets plastered over the interwebs but in reality most trannies are awkward failed women or obnoxious Jessica Yaniv nonpassers. Blue city trans people are more likely just experimenting with labels and haven't gotten masectomies. Lets be real the big issue is men pretending to be women without having gone through the chop because male access to female spaces is rightfully suspect. A girl who wants to check out of the female presentation rat race can use "trans" or NB as convenient acceptable cover until she decides to abandon or commit. To pretend Angel Buck or Bailey Jay are representative of the trans community as a whole is pure definitional fuckery and every prog should be forced to watch the top of all time selection of reddits nonbinary subreddits selfies and really honestly say that they're all equally valid in whatever presentation they choose. Attach a motion sensor to their dick for proof.
You're a bit harsh, but I'd agree with the likes of restaurant guy being a clear scammer who is only looking for opportunities to be offended. The stock phrase about being misgendered as "a knife in the heart" and the performances picking on people clearly not native English speakers and demanding to see the manager demonstrate that. Doing it for social media clicks (and possibly hoping they can take a discrimination case against some restaurant or café to rake in some easy money).
That is someone who should be compelled to undergo mandatory sex reassignment surgery to become the woman they really are. Put up or shut up!
You've unlocked the secret to democrat revival of fortunes. Obligate trans maximalism. Dude says he wanrs to be trans? Government sponsored dick cutting. Get the fetishists at the eunuch archive to run it, they'll do it for free. No trans without surgery. Backing off? Sorry, then you're not trans. Make every tranny wannabe read Andrea Long Chus works as a primer and force them to go watch sissy hypno Zoolander style till they want to get their dicks cut off if they're on the fence. Domestic allies can't bitch about it because its trans maximalist, repubs are fine with perverts getting eunuched and off the streers. If its a kid then the parents should be celebrated, fucking opeds in the town newsletter about how this stunning and brave parent cut off their childs genitals in the name of progressivism. Pedal to the metal lets see who fucking commits.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The only openly trans person I have ever encountered IRL was a Cracker Barrel host(ess) in small-town Louisiana.
More options
Context Copy link
Nope. Portraying the trans issue as being primarily about who gets to go to which bathroom, or some visceral "ick" factor, is at least 10 years out of date. The reaction to the trans issues comes from progressives seeing the provision of irreversible medical procedures to minors as an inalienable human right, that justifies nearly everything, including public school teachers transing children behind their parents' backs.
It also really doesn't help that trannies in particular are either clearly awkward women who needed better socializing early in their lives or creepy men who needed to be bullied early in their lives. The great win for gay marriage was that most gays really are just normal people and the chemsex degens are really an outlier, but for trans people the more people are exposed to them the less sympathetic they become. Progressives might as well have allied themselves with NAMBLA in this case, at least a decent south park episode came out that acronym
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link