site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   21524 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of May 25, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

4
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

They belong to an unusual population called Irish Travellers with which few non-British or Irish are particularly familiar.

Was The Snatch not a big hit in the US? It was extremely popular in Russia.

Historically, divergence was at most 300 years ago as a modern Irish state slowly emerged under British rule in the aftermath of the wars of the 17th century, which is too soon for the kind of extreme selection effects that produced some other minority groups to emerge.

Huh, TIL. Is this a counterexample to the HBD argument? Do those of them who dislike the culture simply precipitate out of the community and become sedentary Irish?

I have watched and enjoyed Snatch, where Brad Pitt's boxer character is an Irish Traveller. It's also where the famous pig farm speech comes from. I think it's popular among men of a certain age, like Fight Club was, but maybe a decade later.

The two movies were released roughly just one year apart though.

Coincidentally my wife did a paraphrased version of the pig farm speech to my kids last night to their horror/glee (all 3 under 11 years of age).

They kept asking her - "How do you know this?!?... Why do you know this!?!"

Huh, TIL. Is this a counterexample to the HBD argument?

The best counterexample to the HBD argument is probably the Irish in general. In the 19th century, the Irish (in Ireland, mainland Britain and America) had a reputation as the least intelligent white national group. The work of the early IQ testers demonstrated that this reputation was deserved - well-run IQ tests in the first-half of the twentieth century give an average IQ in the 90-93 range for both Irish in Ireland and Irish-Americans. But as Ireland develops and Irish immigrants in the US (and mainland Britain) assimilate measured IQ converges to the white average of 100. In the 1960's average IQs are about 92 in rural Ireland and 100 in the cities. And in the 21st century average white Irish IQ is the same as white British.

Note that all these figures are on top of the Flynn effect, which increases the level of actual g corresponding to 100 IQ over time.

Any eugenic force on the Irish would have been different in Ireland and America, and would have affected other American ethnic groups as well in a way we don't see. So this is an almost 10-point IQ gain from non-genetic causes.

We called it just Snatch, but yes it was, or at least was very popular as a cool and good movie among college kids interested in such things. In Latin America, it was called something that translates to Pigs and Diamonds.

Was The Snatch not a big hit in the US?

I've certainly never heard of it.

Is this a counterexample to the HBD argument?

Russia itself is a counterexample to the HBD argument. Incompetent corrupt oligarchy running a shithole for average people that's slightly poorer than Mexico- despite being fairly good at G-loaded tasks like chess grandmasters and advancing higher mathematics.

Russia isn't a counterexample against HBD. The USA was reliant on Russian spacecraft to reach the ISS for some time (which again the Russians helped build). Likewise the US relies on Russia for about 20% of its enriched uranium.

Mexico doesn't produce machine tools, oil industry equipment, aircraft engines, rocket engines, radar or any sophisticated technology at all. Mexico only assembles electronics. They assemble cars and components designed by others, with machinery supplied by real industrial powers.

Russians are far more capable than Mexicans, which is why the US casually dominated Mexico whenever they clashed, whereas Russia was and is much more of a challenge. Russia can reduce Europe and North America to ash in hours, Mexico can barely control its own territory from gangsters nevermind prosecute foreign policy.

Yes, Russia obviously is capable of doing things that require a lot of thinking- but it can’t translate that into running a country that’s a nice place to live in.

but it can’t translate that into running a country that’s a nice place to live in

As opposed to Mexico?

Who says HBD means all countries run by smart people are more pleasant than countries run by stupid people? I'd rather live in Fiji than North Korea. But Koreans are more capable than Fijians.

Also now I look at it, Russia has twice Mexico's GDP per capita PPP. And even if you look at median incomes, Russia is still about 70% higher. So I don't think that Russia is even poorer than Mexico in any meaningful way and murder rate is lower too. Hard to be more murderous than Mexico. So unless we look at nominal GDP figures which are distorted by sanctions, then Russia is clearly better off. HBD bros win again.

I'd also rather live in Fiji than South Korea for that matter, but that's mostly due to the weather.

That's what six centuries of post-Mongol ruling culture does to you.

Snatch Brad Pitt, Jason Statham, seen it many times. No?

I guess those two were not yet well-known back then.

Pitt was immensely famous already from several films, including Se7en five years prior. You may be right about Statham.

Pitt was immensely famous already from several films, including Se7en five years prior.

Perhaps more importantly, Fight Club from the year prior. Snatch was his next movie and partially promoted as "mega movie star appears in small quirky film."

I've never heard it referred to it as The Snatch. It sounds like the title of the porn parody.

A Snatch by any other name..

Was The Snatch not a big hit in the US? It was extremely popular in Russia.

I'd assume that most people don't look up what a "poikey" is.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if your average 'murican assumes "Mikey the Pikey" is just the local equivalent of white trailer trash. But I could be wrong.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats