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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32829 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 20, 2023

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Out of sheer curiosity: what would be your central example for destroying cultural heritage? Is there anything short of the establishment of a literal Ministry of Truth that would justify Orwell memes?

I'm a little wary of answering questions asked as "sheer curiosity" (usually they aren't, they are asked with an agenda and a desire to fight), but okay.

First, a few pebbles does not an avalanche make. For all our grousing about Roald Dahl and Ian Fleming, there are countless more offensive works that remain untouched. We are mostly sniping at small skirmishes in the Culture War, not the burning of the Library of Alexandria.

If the original versions of such works become not just out of print, but impossible and possibly illegal to acquire, I will worry more. Yes, if you want to claim things are literally Orwellian, then I do think you need to show me a literal Ministry of Truth.

I hate a lot of woke things, and in my darker moments I think maybe the doomers are right, but I've been grousing about wokeness since it was called "political correctness" (which was years before the term "SJW" was coined). Things are cyclic, and some cycles date back to the dawn of literacy.

But maybe I'll wake up one day devoured by leopards. Who knows?

(Still think SkyNet is more likely.)

Even the burning of the library of Alexandria didn't happen the way it is supposed to have done in the popular imagination, and that pop culture version is very much a deliberate creation of people with an agenda in the past.

No, Dahl and Fleming aren't important, Fleming more unimportant than Dahl. But they're straws in the wind. The little pebbles whose falling starts the avalanche in the mountains. This is a mainstream publisher mucking around with long-established properties, not a first-time YA novel getting lambasted for having the wrong type of slavery. Indeed, the first "it's only a few pebbles" was a 2022 memoir by someone who was the typical liberal do-gooder, but was guilty of being the White Saviour:

Last month, controversy was reignited in the UK around teacher Kate Clanchy’s memoir Some Kids I Taught and What They Taught Me, about her time teaching kids from diverse backgrounds to write poetry.

Although Clanchy’s book was initially lauded (even winning the Orwell Prize), criticism soon eclipsed praise. Readers, prominent writers of colour and autistic author Dara McNulty protested the language Clanchy used to describe her pupils (“Somali height”, “Ashkenazi nose”, autistic children as “jarring company”). Her publisher Picador agreed the objections were “instructive and clear-sighted”; eventually, it withdrew the book from publication.

When an author or other creator is not from the group being represented in their work, they might decide to engage a member of that particular community to read it and offer feedback. A novel featuring a transgender Indigenous character would ideally be read by a transgender Indigenous person, and so on.

And if you can't easily get your hands on a trans Indigenous person, you won't get published, seems to be the message here.

They moved on from non-fiction to fiction. What is the next target? Dickens is very problematic, even in his own time (see Fagin). A lot of "Classics" by Dead White Males that don't have even a single transgender Indigenous person! Even worse, there's the reshaping of the past to fit the present:

A recent example from academic publishing shows how this happens. Mary Rambaran-Olm was asked to read a chapter on Early Medieval England of a history book written for the general public. Rambaran-Olm has expertise in relevant academic fields, and also through her personal experience as a scholar of Afro/Indo Caribbean origin.

The white male authors overwhelmingly did not accept her advice about problems with the manuscript’s representation of the past and how it feeds into contemporary racism. They thanked her in the acknowledgements, however. This created the false impression she had actively shaped the contents of the book.

You see? How do you or anyone else learn about Early Mediaeval England? Generally you read a scholarly book. But if the scholarly books are increasingly being "sensitivity read" to make sure that they include all the right think about "contemporary racism", what version are you getting? How much is this already happening, without us knowing?

I guess you could count me among those who disagree with you and say that the alarm bells should have gone off a long time ago. I'm sympathetic to the "paranoid" side because I and other people have noticed the pitfalls that come with total-corporate-publisher-control of media. This is to say that I think we're conceivably not very far from the scenario that would make you more worried.

Do I personally think it will get to the point of criminalization of the old stuff? Not really, but the past decade has taught me that a lot of things that aren't de jure illegal can still get you into a whole universe of trouble. Some things need not be explicitly forbidden--which, in a way, is probably worse than an explicit blacklist.

For all our grousing about Roald Dahl and Ian Fleming, there are countless more offensive works that remain untouched. We are mostly sniping at small skirmishes in the Culture War, not the burning of the Library of Alexandria.

This sounds like the modern equivalent of "it's just a few kids on college campuses."

While I feel like the 2018 adaptation of Fahrenheit 451 completely missed Bradbury's point and nuetered the narrative by rewriting the second half of the story to be about the hunt for some magical MacGuffin, one change they made that I actually thought was pretty clever/prescient was changing making it so that "the Firemen" aren't burning books per se, they're disposing of the pre-existing hard-copies. You can read whatever you want so long as it passes through a Google.gov datacenter, and if you start reading to much "problematic" material you might get a call from HR.

I'm a little wary of answering questions asked as "sheer curiosity" (usually they aren't, they are asked with an agenda and a desire to fight), but okay.

I admit that I enjoy setting bait and springing traps, but I really was just curious what you think about it. Thank you for indulging me.

If the original versions of such works become not just out of print, but impossible and possibly illegal to acquire, I will worry more.

You're not worried that at that point it will be to late?

You're not worried that at that point it will be to late?

Fair. But what I see right now is bowdlerization and social pressure, which is bad enough, but not unprecedented. We've had things like the Hays Code and Comics Code Authority in the past. I think actual censorship laws being passed would be a discernible leap forward towards your hypothetical Ministry of Truth.

Yes, if you want to claim things are literally Orwellian, then I do think you need to show me a literal Ministry of Truth.

I think there's a pretty good case to be made for federal agencies contacting Twitter and Facebook to stop the spread of disapproved information is effectively this, even if it lacks the exact name. Would "Disinformation Governance Board" be close enough to MinTru to qualify? I don't expect the government to get quite so aggressive about children's books, but the approach taken to information that is critical to a public trying to make sense of current policies and elections is not encouraging.

Judging by the amount of proclamations about the necessity of fighting disinformation from the high places, the Board will be back. Maybe as part of CDC, subject to WHO, because we already learned that the rules do not apply if you yell "pandemic!". And since, as we know from the same CDC, racism, sexism, gun control, and many other such things are public health emergencies, you can get the idea.

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