This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
We've talked about Anthony Bourdain here a few times.
Here's this travel writer's account of following in his footsteps and after Bourdain finally meets with her and validates her, she has a bit of an identity crisis when she realizes he's a sad loser.
Firstly, being a travel journalist is not as glamorous as it looks, having tossed her cookies after eating token cooked goat brain and local fruit
But also, at some point she comes across an episode where Bourdain interviews Iggy Pop, the godfather of punk and his personal idol, and finds that an older and more mellow Iggy had come there from the gym, orders one drink, has the shrimp. Talks about how love and relationships are what sustain him now. It seems to crush Bourdain, who realizes the guy who invented live fast die young was just putting on an act, not leaving an instruction manual to be taken seriously.
Bourdain, who grappled with drug addiction and depression, kills himself at 61 during a bout of unrequited love.
I can't help but make the connection that the punk ethos and the travel-slutting ethos of taking the highs and the peaks and dodging the responsibilities and commitments, they might be a sign of enlightenment, or making the best of a cold uncaring world where nothing means anything, but probably it's an appealing outlet to the mentally ill and we should be skeptical of attempting to romanticize this kind of transience.
Quote our local @coffee_enjoyer back in 2024:
I am mostly unable to convince people in the progressive sphere that Bourdain's mental illness had anything to do with his lifestyle. Even Claude refuses to admit it. And adding the detail and sober account from this travel writer is met with the similar rejection. Mental illness just happens to people and living like a transient and dropping out of society and rejecting connection is just like, a totally valid way to live and says nothing about the mental state of the people living it, don'tchaknow? I just don't buy it, I guess.
I enjoyed travel slutting (and by this I mean extended tourism) and while I never identified with punk, for awhile I did the psychedelic Timothy Leary adjacent thing of trying to take drugs with numbers in their name and break out of default living, but ... it's kind of hard. And neither of these things are all that fulfilling at length. I'm not sure what's going through the heads of people who say they could just happily tour Europe or drop acid for forever. The fact that Bourdain is not a fringe figure but like a progressive hero meant to be celebrated and emulated is wild.
Say what you will about the lame conformity of marrying your sweetheart and having 2.3 kids and buying the house with a white picket fence and your thrills are drinking a beer, smoking a brisket and giving your wife a creampie every Saturday, but after seeing friends die so young or losing their minds or never really being able to hold a marriage together, to say nothing of the grim meathook reality I've seen traveling the third world, that lame conformist life looks more like a precious gift and I feel sorry for people who get conned into rejecting it.
Have you tried it? I can well believe it's the way to go on net, but it's not like nobody has ever felt overpowered by quiet desperation on that path either.
I think the picket-fence life works better than the alternative for the vast majority of people, and that you should not gamble on being in the minority unless you have a very good reason to believe otherwise.
Good point. I'm feeling this one lately, though in terms socio-economic rather than romantic. Not that the romance is going all that well, mind you.
I've always been odd, first tried and failed to find an alternate way of life, then buckled down hard on trying to make it somewhat conventionally. And now, at the meridian of middle age, I suspect I'm meeting my limits. The conventional ways aren't working out. But there aren't any promising alternatives either.
I'll just let Comac McCarthy speak for me here.
Are any of McCarthy's works translated into German? Just curious.
Apparently:
More options
Context Copy link
I hope not. I strongly doubt there's any translator who can do him justice. Frankly, I don't think it's possible at all. It's a piece of American literature written in English, and IMO needs to be read as such.
That said, of course there are. Translators were always desparate for work, and nowadays translations are practically free. Whether or not they live up to the original work - barely anyone ever bothers to think about it.
Literary translation, particularly for prestige authors like McCarthy, is not really "desperate for work" work. The money's not good, but you generally do it on a grant, so you have to plan the project and justify it and so on.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I understand why you feel the latter way. If you don't mind my asking, why do you feel the socioeconomic path you've taken isn't working out for you?
Chiefly, I suppose, because it involves interacting with humans, which I am not good enough at. I can muddle through with great effort, but I slip up too often and end up not being on the same page as my nominal peers. Not being aware of the same information as them, not sharing their implicit norms and expectations, and not pursuing the same goals as them, and thus communicating and cooperating poorly with them. Over time, this has compounding effects - alienating people, stalling career, running out of friends, failing to build up capital, dropping out of my starting socioeconomic class, which in turn makes it even more difficult to interact with people.
Even my supposedly very technical job is maybe 10% making machines do things, and 90% coordinating with others. The exact percentages may have varied depending on the company and position, but it's always been soft skills over hard skills. And my abilities as a programmer may be decent, maybe even above average, but certainly not good enough to compensate for my shortcomings in all other areas. Including my ability to learn to adapt, which isn't that hot.
So why do I feel that way? Because I'm just not much good at any area of life. I consistently make poor decisions and deliver poor performance, even when trying to adapt and improve. And it has always been that way.
But what alternate paths are there? I'm not creative or innovative or entrepreneurial enough to be the randian superman. I'm not cut out for the maverick rockstar influencer rebel life either, lacking the people skills required for it. Doing the hippie hermit self-sufficiency thing isn't viable either; I am ultimately a civilized, technology-dependent modern human with no agricultural skills and no land or capital with which to buy land. And the obvious route of becoming unemployed and living off of social welfare (which the current federal government intends to reduce, anyways) outright disgusts me; if I fail my fellow humans, then let me at least not be a burden. Then there's the option of just taking a menial job like delivery driver - but I can't realistically make do with a significantly reduced salary; I do have a family depending on me, and costs of living are high. There's not enough slack.
So muddle through I will, on and on.
More options
Context Copy link
A lot of the more eccentric socioeconomic paths fizzle as you get older. The old careers have dealt with the problem of people aging up, if even their solutions aren’t always well-suited to the modern world. It’s recognised that there are a bunch of 50/60 year old bankers around who aren’t hotshots and people have some idea what to do with them.
If you do something newer and weirder, like NFT transaction consultancy, then when NFTs fall out of fashion you have to pull a new career together for yourself while all the traditional ones are already full of the people working their way up the old fashioned way.
To a certain degree your NFT transaction consultancy kind of character will survive by just skimming the waves of whatever becomes new and hip. Obviously lots will blow up in the attempt but I know enough crackhead energy crypto types who manage to skid along on occasional lottery hits
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Because he's living in Germany, I assume.
Partially, but not mainly. Mainly it's just me. Germany is making it more difficult for me in some ways because
But again, plenty of people deal just fine with all that, and prosper.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link