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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   32918 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 27, 2023

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I've been seeing media reports (1) about ISPs asking for companies (especially companies that use a lot of bandwidth like Netflix) to pay for network infrastructure. A quick google led me to a number of articles (2,3,{1}) that read something like:

"Large corporate bandwidth user resists efforts by ISPs or governments to make them pay for bandwidth use" (this is a little bit flippant, but isn't all that far from the truth).

My intuitive response is that users of bandwidth should pay for it, including large companies. This seems fairly straightforward, right?

Another article (4) mentioned that "net neutrality" is the idea that prevents ISPs from charging their customers. How is this defensible?

Another quick google leads me to this article (5) which mentions that one advantage of net neutrality is freedom of speech (which the modal mottizen might be inclined to support), but this goes against the straightforward argument that customers (e.g., Netflix) of a service (network infra providers) should pay for it. What gives?

Sources:

  1. This week (mar-2023): https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/03/netflix-fights-attempt-to-make-streaming-firms-pay-for-isp-network-upgrades/

  2. More than a year ago (sep-2022): https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/09/google-fights-latest-attempt-to-have-big-tech-pay-for-isps-network-upgrades/

  3. More than 10 years ago (feb-2011): https://www.osnews.com/story/24357/internet-infrastructure-who-should-pay/

  4. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/who-pays-internet-infrastructure-simon-dillsworth/

  5. https://www.itpro.com/strategy/28115/the-pros-and-cons-of-net-neutrality

Peters said. "Broadband customers, who drive this increased usage, already pay for the development of the network through their subscription fees. Requiring entertainment companies—both streamers and broadcasters—to pay more on top would mean ISPs effectively charging twice for the same infrastructure."

It seems natural to me that customers pay for the product that comes to them. If I get something trucked to me, I assume the cost of road tax (for upkeep of the road that the truck uses) will be included in whatever I pay the trucking company.

Or another example, when people talk about large companies 'emitting CO2' to imply it's their fault rather than ordinary people's, they do so to provide services we demand. The aluminium they smelt, chemicals they produce all go to an end-user eventually. It's not as though they're emitting CO2 for fun. Ultimate responsibility lies with the demand, not the supplier. If we charged the producers as well as the consumers for emitting CO2, we'd effectively just be charging consumers twice since producers can only push the cost onwards or reduce production.

If we discovered that Netflix was doing something ridiculously silly like using inefficient file-compression and increasing the amount of bandwidth used, then there would be some basis to complain. Or if energy companies were using extremely inefficient, expensive, unreliable sources of energy that necessitated costly construction of new power line infrastructure and the closure of power-intensive industries like aluminium plants, then there would be reason to impose punitive action against them.

If we discovered that Netflix was doing something ridiculously silly like using inefficient file-compression and increasing the amount of bandwidth used, then there would be some basis to complain.

A post above yours says that they basically are.

I think you've misread it.

Netflix wanted to rent space in local datacenters to reduce the necessary bandwidth. Comcast shut them down.

That post says the opposite of your claim.

That post says that Comcast refused to let Netflix reduce its bandwidth usage unless Comcast gets paid.

Actually, it's worse than that. Comcast refused to let Netflix reduce its bandwidth usage at any cost. And then managed to get Netflix to pay them extra for that bandwidth usage.

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