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PaperclipPerfector  5d ago (text post)   2713 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for August 23, 2026

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

Culture war topics are accepted, and proposals for a better intro post are appreciated.

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BTW why so much hate for data centers specifically? Is it just "those folks make tons of money and don't give any to us, we must hate them" or is there more to it? I mean yes, they consume electricity/water/space/whatever, so do many industrial sites and nobody (excepting hippie Gaia lovers which are entirely different crowd) cares. Is it just a new fashionable thing to hate or is there anything deeper here? As big industry projects go, they seem to be far from the worst - they don't smell, barely pollute, don't look egregiously bad (in fact, if we ever manage to get away from endless brutalism, they can look as good as one wants) and can be, as I understand, located on the shittiest terrain ever without a problem. Why are they the devil exactly?

BTW why so much hate for data centers specifically?

This new construction is qualitatively different from previous data centers that leaned more toward CPU workloads or storage. Additionally, many of the reasons that cause locals to dislike them have as much to do with the slapdash nature of the construction as the data center itself.

The gas turbines sound like a Geneva convention violation. The construction equipment fucks up the roads going into and out of the construction sites. The owners get sweetheart tax deals that negate the property tax arguments. The ongoing "jobs" they create are usually something like eight security guards working part time for $18/hour with no benefits.

If you live in San Francisco or Chicago, that all probably sounds great. If you live a couple of miles away, it sucks.

Thé going rate for general maintenance in a data center is six figures.

I'm not going to argue the numbers because you're correct, but I have also seen specialty teams flown in from Texas to handle that maintenance. The actual number of locals doing maintenance post construction is pretty low. The number of people getting their foot in the door to even get the training is even lower.

There's a broad attempt by the pro data center contingent to act like these things are comparable to an old tool and die, or rolled steel mill. They're not even close.

I'm not even against data centers per-se. I'm against the fact that the people building them are functionally pillaging rural communities and doing a half-assed job of it at the same time. They're cramming them in tents, for Christ's sake. I might even be willing to tolerate that, if our local politicians weren't so venal and craven that we can't even extract tax revenues from them.

but I have also seen specialty teams flown in from Texas to handle that maintenance.

I think it's an open question whether or not the human capital to build and maintain advanced data centers exists in these rural areas. I have similar questions about the high-skilled immigration debate writ large. One can raise wages, but if the price elasticity of supply of talented workers isn't high enough, then there will still be a shortage

I think it's an open question whether or not the human capital to build and maintain advanced data centers exists in these rural areas.

Sure, but then you can't pretend "why do these mouth-breathers not want data centres beside their hovels, are they too dumb to see the economic benefit it will bring to their run-down nowheresville backwater?" because there is no economic benefit. The tax breaks sweetheart deals mean the companies pay less than they promised, the jobs are going to outsiders, and if there is bad outcome such as electricity price rises, fucking up local water supplies, etc. then the locals pay it while the benefits go to the shareholders far away.

So if there's no economic benefit, why the tax breaks? Is it just plain bribery, i.e. the tech guys bribing the local government? Because if there's little local benefit, why give them the tax breaks at all? Somebody must be getting something from this deal, otherwise why not tax them as much as possible - they'd have to build somewhere anyway, and if nobody gets any benefit locally, then nobody should be giving them the tax break. I suspect there's some benefit at least to somebody here. Is that just the bribery benefit or there's more to it?

I guess that from the local government point of view a large business paying <100% of the standard local taxes after tax breaks looks a lot better than a large business paying 0% because they found a better offer somewhere else.

The question is whether the taxes raised are going to be a net benefit after fully accounting for the costs of hosting these businesses. At some point it tips over into a net loss, and the closer it is to that point the less worthwhile it is. Given that one side has billions of investment capital and a fleet of corporate professionals dedicated to getting a datacentre built at the optimal cost while their opposition are a set of competitors each consisting of a bunch of minor league politicians and their under-funded, under-paid, under-experienced and under-qualified admin staff who also have to manage their other various duties it's a safe bet that a deal will favour the business.

The question is whether the taxes raised are going to be a net benefit after fully accounting for the costs of hosting these businesses. At some point it tips over into a net loss, and the closer it is to that point the less worthwhile it is. Given that one side has billions of investment capital and a fleet of corporate professionals dedicated to getting a datacentre built at the optimal cost while their opposition are a set of competitors each consisting of a bunch of minor league politicians and their under-funded, under-paid, under-experienced and under-qualified admin staff who also have to manage their other various duties it's a safe bet that a deal will favour the business.

Nice thing, though, is that it can favor the business and still offer that local municipality benefits far greater than if they hadn't given tax breaks. The devil is in the details, of course, but trying to extract as much from the municipality as possible to the the extent that the municipality has net losses from the transaction is something that would cost the business quite a lot of money, likely with diminishing returns as they have to rely on more and more obscure loopholes (that invite court challenges) or hire more and more expensive lawyers who are better negotiators, and it's not like these data center businesses are lacking for other places in which to invest money that have positive expected value.

I think one aspect that my statement doesn't capture, though, is the humiliation or "pride" at having "won" against the business, which I think may be a big deal for a lot of the politicians and the electorate that support them. I kinda understand that this is important, but also, I kinda don't, and I wish more politicians, ideologues, etc. especially from my side of the aisle, would embrace our side being humiliated if it means that we actually make life better for people; it's only through embracing our humiliation that we can prove to ourselves that we actually care about making life better, rather than about feeling pride at believing that we're the kinds of people who make lives better.

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