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PaperclipPerfector  1mo ago (text post)   3515 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for September 6, 2026

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Anybody familiar with Systema? Looks like such a cool martial art.

Martial arts is a solved problem. The optimal fighting style is MMA.

Any style that can't prove itself in the octagon isn't worth looking at, if your goal is to actually fight.

Goal is not to fight though, it's more about personal / spiritual development.

Wouldn't oriental martial arts serve better then, not the one marketed as the pragmatic spec ops killer system?

I'm Orthodox, oriental martial arts have problematic spiritual differences imo. Also, systema is not practical at all lol as far as I understand.

Surely that's not one style but rather a combination of wrestling, BJJ, muay thai, Western boxing, etc., with exact proportions depending on individual background and probably also baseline aptitude and preference.

Yeah that's probably a better way of putting it. In any case, any style that isn't intensely stress-tested on the mat/in the ring isn't worth bothering with. Judo may not be a huge part of MMA since the fighters don't wear clothing beyond shorts, but judoka do fight competitively (although there is definitely a groundfighting gap there that BJJ fills).

Hmeh. MMA does impose certain parameters that do not generalize. Like the octagon itself - flexible walls and a soft floor.

But I agree that competitive fighting is a good heuristic for detecting nonsense martial arts.

And it's one-on-one, and you can't grab your opponent by the clothing, and you have no shoes on and no stomping is allowed. All this means that grappling is generally more efficient in the octagon than it's in a real fight, where ending up on the ground is much more dangerous.

Although I should read more about the new meta now than 12-6 elbow strikes are legal again.

And I agree that competitive fighting is a good heuristic for detecting nonsense martial arts.

The restrictions cut both ways though. Getting lifted and slammed in the octagon is often a waste of energy for your opponent, on concrete, it can be immediate death. I'd agree that generally cuts against BJJ techniques that rely on holding guard, but there are some moves like a double ankle sweep that get a lot more powerful with a hard surface.

It is not quite that simple. MMA is the best in terms of actually learning how to fight, but the very elements that make it so good also means it carries a massive risk of injury compared to most other martial arts.

Traditional martial arts may well have a steeper initial learning curve while also having fewer useful things to teach. But a good Karate, Taekwondo, or Jujitsu club will still improve your fighting abilities compared to someone with no formal training.

So there is a real tradeoff in terms of risk and reward here. And that is before we get into people who practice martial arts mainly because it looks cool.

But a good Karate, Taekwondo, or Jujitsu club will still improve your fighting abilities compared to someone with no formal training.

I don't think that's right. Karate is basically worthless. Spending most of your time on kata and drills that have no correspondence to actual fighting, and then 'sparring' by playing what is essentially tag with your hands and feet. The same is true of Taekwondo (with a weird reluctance to use their fists). Brazilian jujitsu is absolutely valid, but the traditional Japanese kind is closer to aikido (the bullshittiest of bullshit martial arts) than anything that resembles fighting.

Not learning to fight while thinking you're learning to fight seems like a dangerous combination. Far better to practice the mystical ancient art of running away and phoning the police.

Anything that doesn't involve punching, kicking, grappling, throwing, pinning or submitting a resisting opponent is basically dancing. And if you're gonna learn to dance, at least make it a style with hotter girls like salsa.

But if learning to fight means risking injury, well yeah. Fighting is hurting the other guy. That's a pretty inescapable tradeoff.

Eh, basic kicks and strikes are pretty similar between styles and translate pretty well into MMA. Mastering those basics is supposed to be the mark of a black belt. Some traditional martial arts clubs also do full contact sparring, and some will occasionally host self defense courses led by a bouncer or police officer.

The katas and advanced techniques are generally useless in a fight, and any applicable benefit you get from those (strength, coordination, agility, etc.) can be also achieved through other sports. So at that point it is mostly down to personal preference.

But I would think that any dojo that does actual sparring would at least give some benefit, even if you spend a lot of time learning techniques which main purpose are to be technically impressive and look cool.

I don’t think anyone is saying that a punch isn’t just a punch. The problem is the training techniques used. If I learn to punch from a boxer, I will learn to punch against a physical target, I will very quickly be sparring full power against a moving opponent who is blocking and punching back. In most Karate dojos, you never punch another person full power until you have at least 3-6 months of training. Most training will be choreographed dances, punching the air, and performing very light single moves against an opponent who is told to block in a certain way and than punch back.

Karate is basically worthless.

Unless you're generational talent Georges St-Pierre.

Yeah, but that's kyokushin karate, ie: the one with all the madmen who do knockdown sparring all the time.

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