site banner
PaperclipPerfector  3d ago (text post)   12377 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 14, 2026

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

2
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Macklemore (everyone's favorite white rapper) got kicked out after (in an earlier concert) saying "Free Palestine", playing a song with pro-Palestine lyrics, and this:

To all of my Jewish brothers and sisters, criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide, it in no way is criticism of you...This message is for peace, love, for all human beings to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality.

I don't think the fundamental issues change, but the OP's downplaying the scope of Macklemore's statements (youtube), which are significantly more wide-ranging. Among other things, these include a celebration of the recent Columbia University encampment project, a call for a free Cuba (I assume he means free from American attempts to isolate the country?), and criticism of ICE (the American immigration enforcement agency)., and a declaration that he'd joined the tour partly to support Palestine.

[Edit: I'm concerned that the youtube clip above may have been edited misleadingly to imply that Macklemore had declared that he'd jointed the tour partly to support Palestine. I've removed this part from my comment.]

For reference, his full remarks

I said, Free Palestine.

I want those words to be loud and clear, so the people from Gaza, all the way to the occupied West Bank, know that we have not forgotten them.

And this next song was inspired by the bravery of Columbia University students who led an encampment movement that mobilized the entire world; open up hearts, myself included, so thank you to those students that risked their diplomas, that risked their tuition, that risked their scholarships, that stood up and said, no. CUAD students, Students for Justice in Palestine, and Jewish Voices for Peace. Thank you, guys.

To all of my Jewish brothers and sisters: criticism of Israel, criticism of apartheid, being against genocide in no way is a criticism of you. My message is for peace; love for all human beings to be treated with dignity, respect, and equality.

So I say Free Palestine, I say Free Lebanon, I say Free Cuba, I say Free Congo, Free Sudan, I say Free all people in America living in fear of this terrorist organization, ICE. None of us will be free until we are all free.

He also wore a costume mocking orthodox Jews, then issued a non-apology, but that was in 2014 long before he was accepted into this tour.

This speech is more wide-reaching, but I wouldn’t call it anti-Semitic, because he explicitly says he is not criticizing Jews or Israelis but the genocide itself (implicitly its undertakers, who don’t include every Jew or Israeli citizen).

Are these actually the full relevant portion of his remarks?

For example, immediately preceding this quoted speech, he said:

I wanted to stand up here on stages and stadiums across America and say two words that are very near and dear to my heart, ‘Free Palestine.’

This introduces the follow-up exclamation, "I said, Free Palestine."

He may have indicated that making this point was a major reason he was on the tour to begin with, i.e., that he was on the tour partly because he "wanted to stand up here on stages and stadiums across America" to speak out about Palestine - but I cannot say this with confidence given that the video I'm referencing gives-off some suggestions of having been misleadingly edited.

This speech is more wide-reaching, but I wouldn’t call it anti-Semitic, because he explicitly says he is not criticizing Jews or Israelis but the genocide itself (implicitly its undertakers, who don’t include every Jew or Israeli citizen).

"I'm explicitly not criticizing X group, just the bad ones" is... not generally a great defense, even though it may be very common.

Is it a defense seen typically on the left? ACAB, etc.

I remember it being taken apart in the classic Radicalizing the Romanceless post:

It was wrong of me to say I hate poor minorities. I meant I hate Poor Minorities! Poor Minorities is a category I made up that includes only poor minorities who complain about poverty or racism.

No, wait! I can be even more charitable! A poor minority is only a Poor Minority if their compaints about poverty and racism come from a sense of entitlement. Which I get to decide after listening to them for two seconds. And If they don’t realize that they’re doing something wrong, then they’re automatically a Poor Minority.

I dedicate my blog to explaining how Poor Minorities, when they’re complaining about their difficulties with poverty or asking why some people like Paris Hilton seem to have it so easy, really just want to steal your company’s money and probably sexually molest their co-workers. And I’m not being unfair at all! Right? Because of my new definition! I know everyone I’m talking to can hear those Capital Letters. And there’s no chance whatsoever anyone will accidentally misclassify any particular poor minority as a Poor Minority. That’s crazy talk! I’m sure the “make fun of Poor Minorities” community will be diligently self-policing against that sort of thing. Because if anyone is known for their rigorous application of epistemic charity, it is the make-fun-of-Poor-Minorities community!

I’m not even sure I can dignify this with the term “motte-and-bailey fallacy”. It is a tiny Playmobil motte on a bailey the size of Russia.

Yes. It's the argument they're making when they deny that the dogged insistence on using the term "toxic masculinity" in specific and their steadfast refusal to even entertain alternative terminology isn't an attempt to marry the concept of masculinity to being inherently toxic, but that they are only criticising the toxic aspects of masculinity.

You know, like how if you turned on the car radio and it started playing One Direction, and my response was "ugh, I hate shitty pop music" you'd naturally assume that I ordinarily love pop music and I'm only singling out specific bands in particular, and definitely not talking about the genre as a whole.

'Not all men', wasn't from the left and was the response to some of the 'toxic masculinity' nonsense.

I don't recall the parsing of toxic vs non-toxic aspects of masculinity.

I don't think your example works? I like pop music, but I hate shitty pop music. I guess if I only ever say 'shitty' and 'pop music' together that would be strange, not sure that's the case with masculinity and the left though depends who you are referring to.

It works fine. The normal English reading of that line is that "shitty" refers to the category of "pop music", rather than creating a subclass.

I've heard this language pattern being called "a cat coupling". Or in more academic terms, a modifier being plausibly both a restrictive and a non-restrictive one.

No, it's ambiguous and how you'd interpret it would depend on the speaker and context. It could be said by someone who absolutely loves pop music. A true opera lover might well hate shitty opera more than anyone.

I think in the latter case you would italicize the "shitty". Your reading only works if that one word is particularly stressed.

Students for Justice in Palestine

For reference, one of this organisation's internal documents characterised the October 7th attacks as an "historic win for the Palestinian resistance".

"(He also called for several other peoples to be free, all around the world, including in Cuba and Sudan.)"

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2026/09/macklemore-ed-sheeran-tour-antisemitism-israel-jewish-fracture.html

The fact that this article describes him as saying "Cuba and Sudan" makes me wonder if maybe he didn't mean it the way you think he meant it.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats