site banner
naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   37959 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Trump Indicted: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/30/donald-trump-indicted-in-hush-money-payment-case.html

This is a major enough story that I think it goes beyond needing more than just a link.

Florida governor Ron DeSantis will not assist with extradition: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/desantis-trump-charges-are-un-american-says-florida-will-not-assist-in-extradition-request-by-manhattan

Rachel Vindman: https://twitter.com/natsechobbyist/status/1641585602146496518

I was wondering if you’re still an antisemite. Thanks for letting us know you are and have no intention to back down.

Seriously what the fuck is it with this stuff? In what conceivable way is him saying he won't extradite Trump "anti semitic"?

Anyone who dislikes Soros is an antisemite, as far as these people are concerned.

The irony of Trump being Grand Marshal of the Salute to Israel (a real thing that actually happens!) escapes these people. Trump is surely one of the least anti-semitic people of all time. He signed a bunch of hate-crime laws for Jews. He recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. He gave eulogies to the bygone era of Israeli dominance of the US congress:

“The biggest change I’ve seen in Congress is Israel literally owned Congress — you understand that — 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And it was so powerful. It was so powerful. And today it’s almost the opposite,” Trump said.

“And we’re not talking about over a very long period of time, but I think you know exactly what I’m saying. They had such power, Israel had such power — and rightfully — over Congress, and now it doesn’t. It’s incredible, actually,” Trump claimed.

Really, people should be accusing the people indicting him of being anti-semitic.

The irony of Trump being Grand Marshal of the Salute to Israel (a real thing that actually happens!) escapes these people

That Tweet was directed at DeSantis, not Trump. And it's possible for Trump to be philosemitic while someone supporting him is antisemitic.

Not to mention his son-in-law, who he appointed as a senior adviser, is Jewish.

Her husband really hates the first amendment. They seem like two peas in a pod.

He mentioned Soros, who is Jewish. Anti-semitic conspiracy theorists on /pol/ also don't like Soros, so complaining about him must mean DeSantis is dogwhistling to them. Unlike when people complain about the Koch brothers or Peter Thiel, which is just expressing justifiable anger at billionaires subverting our democracy.

On a largely unrelated note, it just occurred to me that the whole "vampire harvesting the blood of the young" smear directed at Peter Thiel (for the offense of investing in medical research companies that did longevity research investigating the thing where mice given blood transplants live longer) would 100% have been pattern-matched as "anti-semitic blood libel" if he was Jewish. Somehow I never made that connection before. Here's a list of articles I had saved for those unfamiliar:

Peter Thiel Is Interested in Harvesting the Blood of the Young - Gawker

Billionaire Peter Thiel thinks young people’s blood can keep him young forever - Raw Story

Peter Thiel Isn't the First to Think Young People's Blood Will Make Him Immortal - The Daily Beast

Peter Thiel is Very, Very Interested in Young People's Blood - Inc

The Blood of Young People Won’t Help Peter Thiel Fight Death - Vice

Hey, Silicon Valley: you might not want to inject yourself with the blood of the young just yet - Vox

Peter Thiel Wants to Inject Himself with Young People's Blood - Vanity Fair

Is Peter Thiel a Vampire? - New Republic

Reminds me of the opposite case where a caller-in of the LBC radio show was called anti semitic for using the word “globalist” despite using it to describe Rishi Sunak.

It's almost the mirror image of the adrenochrome theory.

If you don't let Jewish NGOs buy up your legal system and manipulate your elections by prosecuting anyone resisting it's anti-Semitic don't ya know?

I find this comment ironic given all the other people insisting that banging a gong about the evil globalist George Soros is totally not anti-Semitic at all.

This comment is also low effort and makes inflammatory claims without evidence, and contributes nothing to the discussion. If you personally want to bang a gong about the evil globalist George Soros, you need to put actual effort into articulating your problem with him, or explain all these "Jewish NGOs buying up our legal systems and manipulating our elections."

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats