site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 19, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/shows/meetthepress/blog/rcna90023

Apparently there’s been a big drop in conservative support for gay marriage, all in the space of a year.

I think this says a lot, mainly because it’s a point I see brought up by a lot of the blackpillers in this community “look, look - even conservatives support gay marriage now, there’s no stopping progressivism”.

Well, what now? Apparently the left has pushed too hard and too fast and it’s turning the GOP away. Being LGBT isn’t seen as some harmless thing anymore, especially when it seems being “tolerant” means accepting gay drag nuns on crucifixes. The parodies are no longer a parody, and grooming children to accept gender ideology seems rife in schools even in deep red states.

Recently I read about a Muslim city in america voting to ban the pride flag. This is just one example of the incoming shift and realignment being forced by progressive extremism becoming more forcibly mainstream

Apparently there’s been a big drop in conservative support for gay marriage, all in the space of a year.

People are saying this is big, but it doesn't seem nearly big enough given how obviously duped conservatives who supported this (heck even progressives) were by the propaganda. Lets examine the sales pitch for gay marriage.

  1. We just want what's fair. False. They immediately demanded everyone participate.

  2. This wont affect your family. False. You and your family will constantly be in court battles to keep your family together against state agents attempting to castrate your kid.

  3. This will normalize the gay community. False, they are more depraved in public than ever.

  4. Love is love. Maybe?

As someone who

  • hasn’t been asked to “participate,”

  • doesn’t know anyone in court over gender, let alone castration, and

  • has seen no signs of increased gay depravity…

Prove it.

From where I’m standing, the sea change comes from trans activism getting into the Overton window—and from the media realizing what a good wedge it makes. I don’t think gay rights have gotten any more invasive since gay marriage. You’re hearing more about them because the movement has picked up some easier targets.

and from the media realizing what a good wedge it makes

It makes a good wedge because the bailey (the activism part) is utterly insane, but there's a pleasant motte that you can herd a lot of empathetic normies into.

It was never going to maintain it's acceleration once the normies realize what the activists actually expected of them -- now the question is whether the LGB motte can/will shed the T bailey and let the issue sink back into the obscurity it richly deserves -- or whether the wedge will keep being hammered in.

The media will just keep saying it isn't happening, the normies will forget they know it's happening, and it'll keep happening.

The media is going to ignore their favoured candidates losing elections in Virginia over it?

No, they'll say it's not happening EVEN HARDER.

There may be a lot of ruin left in the nation, but I'd say the amount left in large media organizations is becoming noticeably finite.