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PaperclipPerfector  8mo ago (text post)   2114 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for August 23, 2023

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Gym question: why is it that online gym experts always recommend bench press, squats and deadlifts over any of the other machines in the weights room?

My gym is relatively empty when I go in the middle of the work day, I see a trainer once a week and go one other time (and do pilates on another day, guys I’m trying here). I say this because the reason he has me doing machines doesn’t appear to be that the bench press rack is always busy or something. I can do all three of the above exercises (with embarrassingly low weights, but still). But he almost always has me doing other stuff, particularly for legs where we do leg extensions and leg press and just do some squats at the end. For arms and back we usually use cables(?) (I don’t know what it’s called but it looks like this).

So is my trainer just a schmuck who knows nothing and should be putting me on the basic 5x5 or whatever? Are gym owners idiots for spending all this money on machines when all the weights room needs is squat racks, benches and free weights? Or do they do so solely for the unenlightened who don’t know that squats and deadlifts are all you need? Enlighten me.

Epistemic status: Uncertain

My lifting plan is centered around barbell work with some dumbbell accessory movements. I don't use machines at all. The reason to use free weights rather than machines is that you activate all kinds of smaller stabilizing muscles that aren't hit when using a machine because the machine guides the path of the weight for you. The advantage to using a machine would be to target your larger muscles in a very specific way.

My guess would be that gym owners invest in machines because:

  • They are safer; you can seriously hurt yourself on a bench press if you don't have a spotter and don't have safety rails set up. You can't hurt yourself with a chest press machine.
  • They're more user friendly; any schmuck can walk into a gym and immediately start using a machine rather than having to futz around with getting the settings right on a power rack and making sure they have good form etc.
  • They're more sexy; newbies love using machines

But no, you don't actually need them and in my opinion you're better off not using them ... but really as long as you're getting in the gym consistently and pushing yourself hard you will progress (especially at first); the specifics aren't really that important.

The reason to use free weights rather than machines is that you activate all kinds of smaller stabilizing muscles that aren't hit when using a machine because the machine guides the path of the weight for you.

Why do so few people take this to its logical conclusion and use dumbbells instead of barbells for presses? Dumbbells require more stabilization than a barbell does. At some point you get too strong for the heaviest dumbbells at your gym, but most people never get there.

To add to the other comments, it's far easier to injure yourself with dumbbells rather than a barbell. For DB bench you need to know how to fail safe and be ready to do it even at the limits of exertion, for BB bench you just need to not drop the bar on yourself. They also exert more force on your shoulders in a dangerous position, particularly in incline bench, which is good for training stabilizers but also carries a higher risk if you ego lift.

Requiring more stabilization means you're usually lifting less weight, meaning that in turn, there is less absolute load placed on the muscles. Though the precise mechanisms that drive adaptations aren't that well understood yet, load very definitely is one of them.

Why do so few people take this to its logical conclusion and use dumbbells instead of barbells for presses?

  1. Because you can lift more total weight with barbells, which means your entire kinetic chain is doing work. If you can bench press 150 LBS, you may only be able to dumbell press two 60 pound dumbells for a total of 120.
  2. It's easier to do progressive overload in small increments with barbells. At most gyms, you have to increase the total dumbell weight by 10 pounds each increment. That can be a really big jump. With barbells, it's easier to add 5 pounds or even 2.5 pounds at a time.
  3. Many people do both, since each has its benefits.

This is actually indeed a reason why some people use dumbbells instead of barbells for presses. Increased range of motion, increased engagement of stabilizers, and greater flexibility to perform the exercise how you feel most comfortable. A popular one is dumbbell bench instead of barbell; some claim it allows them greater ability to recruit the pecs (as opposed to the triceps and anterior deltoids dominating too much in the barbell bench). However, it comes with tradeoffs—dumbbells can more quickly deplete your grip strength and subtly tire you out through stabilizer recruitment. People have different preferences and Goldilocks zones for what feels just right.

I use dumbbells for presses! I can't get my friends to do it with me. It also has the added bonus that I probably won't be able to crush myself to death with them. It's great!

I guess it must vary by gym? I would guess there are at least as many people in the average gym using the dumbbell rack vs the barbell benches.

I mentioned above that I think bench press is a sub-optimal exercise, I probably should have specified barbell bench press. I do think there is a place for both bilateral and unilateral exercises though. A lot of real world horizontal pressing involves using both arms. I also think the average gym has 100's as the heaviest dumbbells which is not really that much above the level of all the people you see barbell benching 225. You do see 120's in some gyms, but in most gyms big enough to have them you see people benching at least 315 on the barbell.

For overhead press I am actually pretty certain I see more people using dumbbell vs barbells.

Edit: Also, which muscle do actually get more engagement in dumbbell bench? If your lats are fully engaged aren't your scapula constrained by the bench anyway? Substantial loading of the rotator cuff during the bench press doesn't sound like a great idea.

It's easier to unrack a barbell than to kick dumbbells into the starting position with your knees. Otherwise dumbbells are the shit, a 40kg barbell is nothing, while 20kg dumbbells tucker me out every time.

I completely forgot not everyone has dumbbell hooks. It's a real game changer not to have to kick up heavy dumbbells.

smaller stabilizing muscles

I think I would argue that it’s not that you can’t target the “smaller” muscles in the body with a machine, it’s that a machine that travels in a fixed path requires less firing of multiple muscle groups synergistically.

For example, for a high bar back squat, the prime movers are the quadriceps, but the synergists include the gluteus maximus, which is a “big” muscle group. The hamstrings are considered a dynamic stabilizer in the movement but should not be “small” and should be trained to fire in coordination with the quadriceps. A leg extension removes much of the requirement for the coordinated contraction between the quadriceps and hamstrings.

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