naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
No electricity, water, or fuel for Gaza until hostages freed - Israel
Israel's Energy Minister Israel Katz says the siege of Gaza will not end until Israeli hostages are released.
In a social media post, Israel Katz said no "electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter" until the "abductees" are free.
I think this is a smart move. Even if the hostages being released remains very unlikely, it puts more of the moral burden for the siege on the Gazans, who do (broadly) support Hamas.
At this point the optics don't matter. I genuinely believe that Israel could detonate some tactical nuclear weapons in Gaza, killing everybody there, including the prisoners, and would suffer almost no negative consequences for it.
Israel, and by extension the Jewish diaspora, has an absolute grasp on western media and government. During the American house speaker recall debate, one of the congresswomen gave a speech explaining that we should keep McCarthy as speaker because he has done the most to bring other congressmen to Israel. Major American policy debates center around support for Israel, a small foreign country.[1]
The Palestinian terror attacks were a type of brutality I don't think anybody in the modern western world has ever seen before. They were uniquely horrific, and I think this will be remembered as a turning point in modern history the same way that 9/11 was.
Israel is out for blood, and nobody in the west with any real power is going to stop them.
And by the way: good for them. I, a Catholic American, am jealous (although jealous is the wrong word since that sortof implies an animosity, which I have none of) of the power that the Jewish people have. Much of my criticism of The Church centers around not behaving more like The Jews. Why no Catholic equivalent to "Birthright Israel"? Why not make Catholics learn latin anymore? These are good things that people should do.
(Although I don't think they should be nuking Palestine.)
And by the way: good for them. I, a Catholic American, am jealous (although jealous is the wrong word since that sortof implies an animosity, which I have none of) of the power that the Jewish people have.
For this, you would need to invent some "secular Catholic" identity and community, where someone who never went to Church, who does not obey and does not care about any of Catholic religious laws, someone who does not know transubstantiation from transmission, someone whose only connection to Catholicism is that some of his ancestors were sprinkled with water by priest hundreds years ago, would still identify as proud Catholic.
No. This is borderline not being Catholic yourself especially how others are expressing it in the comments.
Catholicism is NOT an ethnicity. It’s not nationalism. It should never be an ethnicity or a nation. It’s about following Christ of which includes following the Church as the representative of Christ on earth.
I want nothing to do with people who want a culture Catholic ethnicity.
As brutal as the Spanish were there is a reason why Mayans and Aztecs today are mostly all Catholic. They were still viewed as brothers capable of embracing Christ.
No. This is borderline not being Catholic yourself especially how others are expressing it in the comments.
An absurd statement. I want my literal sisters, my literal mother and father, and some of my friends, who have fallen off of the faith, to remember that they are still baptized, confirmed catholics and should return to Church with me every Sunday when I invite them to mass with me.
I'm not describing diluting the faith. I'm advocating for a more traditional interpretation of it where people assign more importance and value to it.
I feel like I have to have back @sliders1234 on this one. If those who have left the faith choose to return I believe they should be welcomed with open arms, but in the meantime...
he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man’s company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
Okay I think I understand what you guys are saying, and I think we're getting in a bit of a semantics trap here.
I'm saying: a person who was raised catholic, and who went through confirmation, should still consider themselves associated with The Church. When they hopefully decide to go back to church, it shouldn't be a question of which church they go to, since they are...Catholic.
Contrast this with an atheist, or somebody finding faith for the first time. Catholicism might be an option for them, but wouldn't be the default since they have no connection to Catholicism.
It's the difference between returning to something, and finding something for the first time.
I'm not saying that people who aren't going to church and aren't living a Catholic lifestyle should still refer to themselves as "Catholics". I think I'm actually saying the opposite of that. I can see where the confusion came from, though, since this is how many Jews approach their religion.
When I say be more like the Jews, it's probably based on a misunderstanding. What I actually mean is:
Send your kids to Catholic school
Marry other Catholics
Be friends with other Catholics
Make Catholicism a central part of your life (Many devout Catholics I know are extremely charitable, for instance)
Be assertively Catholic. Be unapologetically anti abortion, anti-degeneracy etc. Be proud of the makeup of the supreme court. Pray before meals, etc.
Maybe this is based on my interactions with Jewish friends, who all seem to be a lot more devout and dedicated to their religion than a lot of my Catholic friends. I don't think I have ever had a person reveal to me that they are Jewish, and have it be a surprise since they are all somewhat vocal about it. I have had the opposite reaction from friends who tell me that they're Catholic, and it be a surprise to me because they don't...seem very Catholic.
Consider Ben Shapiro: what does him being Jewish have to do with his talk show or whatever? But is there any question about his religious affiliation?
To my comment about Latin: the fact that many jews speak Hebrew creates a sense of belonging and camaraderie that I wish existed with Catholics. I hear my Jewish friends rattle stuff off in Hebrew all the time (although it's mostly references to practices, or holidays) - I think that being a Jew and having a language that unites you with other Jews probably does a lot to create a sense of cohesion, and I suspect also keeps people in the faith (not just the language, but all of the things like that).
So again I'm not saying to water the faith down and just let anybody say they're Catholic without really having that mean anything. I'm saying the opposite of that: make saying "I'm Catholic" really mean something.
I think that this stuff will make it harder to leave The Church, and easier to return if you do, since it is more of a central part of your identity than just something you do every Sunday for an hour.
What would be nice is if there was a religion that was more or less born and adapted to a modern, industrial context in which germ theory was a thing and there was essentially no threat of literally starving to death.
I can't speak for @sliders1234, but for my part...
I think I'm actually saying the opposite of that. I can see where the confusion came from, though, since this is how many Jews approach their religion.
...clears a lot up because, yes, the latter part is what I thought you ment and at the risk of proffering aid and comfort to the enemy by agreeing with our local neo-nazis I think this is an instance where the claim that there is a cabal of Jewish intellectuals trying to undermine the west is actually true. The idea that religious/ethnic identity is a matter of blood rather than one of cultural practice/affiliation is a distinctively Jewish one. Even the Jihadis for all their barbarism are welcoming of converts and on occasion respectful towards those they view as useful allies/worthy opponents.
I guess I think the goal of a Catholic is to live as how Christ lived (I’ve failed and am not in communion with the church presently).
Of course we all will fail at that. The sacraments when we try to accomplish that in good faith are there to give us forgiveness. And to believe that Jesus Christ the son God came to this earth to experience our experience and die for our sins to give us a path.
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Notes -
No electricity, water, or fuel for Gaza until hostages freed - Israel
[From the BBC news live tracker]
I think this is a smart move. Even if the hostages being released remains very unlikely, it puts more of the moral burden for the siege on the Gazans, who do (broadly) support Hamas.
At this point the optics don't matter. I genuinely believe that Israel could detonate some tactical nuclear weapons in Gaza, killing everybody there, including the prisoners, and would suffer almost no negative consequences for it.
Israel, and by extension the Jewish diaspora, has an absolute grasp on western media and government. During the American house speaker recall debate, one of the congresswomen gave a speech explaining that we should keep McCarthy as speaker because he has done the most to bring other congressmen to Israel. Major American policy debates center around support for Israel, a small foreign country.[1]
The Palestinian terror attacks were a type of brutality I don't think anybody in the modern western world has ever seen before. They were uniquely horrific, and I think this will be remembered as a turning point in modern history the same way that 9/11 was.
Israel is out for blood, and nobody in the west with any real power is going to stop them.
And by the way: good for them. I, a Catholic American, am jealous (although jealous is the wrong word since that sortof implies an animosity, which I have none of) of the power that the Jewish people have. Much of my criticism of The Church centers around not behaving more like The Jews. Why no Catholic equivalent to "Birthright Israel"? Why not make Catholics learn latin anymore? These are good things that people should do.
(Although I don't think they should be nuking Palestine.)
For this, you would need to invent some "secular Catholic" identity and community, where someone who never went to Church, who does not obey and does not care about any of Catholic religious laws, someone who does not know transubstantiation from transmission, someone whose only connection to Catholicism is that some of his ancestors were sprinkled with water by priest hundreds years ago, would still identify as proud Catholic.
Yes exactly. I think that would be a good thing because it would be easier for lapsed adult Catholics to return to The Church.
No. This is borderline not being Catholic yourself especially how others are expressing it in the comments.
Catholicism is NOT an ethnicity. It’s not nationalism. It should never be an ethnicity or a nation. It’s about following Christ of which includes following the Church as the representative of Christ on earth.
I want nothing to do with people who want a culture Catholic ethnicity.
As brutal as the Spanish were there is a reason why Mayans and Aztecs today are mostly all Catholic. They were still viewed as brothers capable of embracing Christ.
An absurd statement. I want my literal sisters, my literal mother and father, and some of my friends, who have fallen off of the faith, to remember that they are still baptized, confirmed catholics and should return to Church with me every Sunday when I invite them to mass with me.
I'm not describing diluting the faith. I'm advocating for a more traditional interpretation of it where people assign more importance and value to it.
I feel like I have to have back @sliders1234 on this one. If those who have left the faith choose to return I believe they should be welcomed with open arms, but in the meantime...
Okay I think I understand what you guys are saying, and I think we're getting in a bit of a semantics trap here.
I'm saying: a person who was raised catholic, and who went through confirmation, should still consider themselves associated with The Church. When they hopefully decide to go back to church, it shouldn't be a question of which church they go to, since they are...Catholic.
Contrast this with an atheist, or somebody finding faith for the first time. Catholicism might be an option for them, but wouldn't be the default since they have no connection to Catholicism.
It's the difference between returning to something, and finding something for the first time.
I'm not saying that people who aren't going to church and aren't living a Catholic lifestyle should still refer to themselves as "Catholics". I think I'm actually saying the opposite of that. I can see where the confusion came from, though, since this is how many Jews approach their religion.
When I say be more like the Jews, it's probably based on a misunderstanding. What I actually mean is:
Send your kids to Catholic school
Marry other Catholics
Be friends with other Catholics
Make Catholicism a central part of your life (Many devout Catholics I know are extremely charitable, for instance)
Be assertively Catholic. Be unapologetically anti abortion, anti-degeneracy etc. Be proud of the makeup of the supreme court. Pray before meals, etc.
Maybe this is based on my interactions with Jewish friends, who all seem to be a lot more devout and dedicated to their religion than a lot of my Catholic friends. I don't think I have ever had a person reveal to me that they are Jewish, and have it be a surprise since they are all somewhat vocal about it. I have had the opposite reaction from friends who tell me that they're Catholic, and it be a surprise to me because they don't...seem very Catholic.
Consider Ben Shapiro: what does him being Jewish have to do with his talk show or whatever? But is there any question about his religious affiliation?
To my comment about Latin: the fact that many jews speak Hebrew creates a sense of belonging and camaraderie that I wish existed with Catholics. I hear my Jewish friends rattle stuff off in Hebrew all the time (although it's mostly references to practices, or holidays) - I think that being a Jew and having a language that unites you with other Jews probably does a lot to create a sense of cohesion, and I suspect also keeps people in the faith (not just the language, but all of the things like that).
So again I'm not saying to water the faith down and just let anybody say they're Catholic without really having that mean anything. I'm saying the opposite of that: make saying "I'm Catholic" really mean something.
I think that this stuff will make it harder to leave The Church, and easier to return if you do, since it is more of a central part of your identity than just something you do every Sunday for an hour.
What would be nice is if there was a religion that was more or less born and adapted to a modern, industrial context in which germ theory was a thing and there was essentially no threat of literally starving to death.
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I can't speak for @sliders1234, but for my part...
...clears a lot up because, yes, the latter part is what I thought you ment and at the risk of proffering aid and comfort to the enemy by agreeing with our local neo-nazis I think this is an instance where the claim that there is a cabal of Jewish intellectuals trying to undermine the west is actually true. The idea that religious/ethnic identity is a matter of blood rather than one of cultural practice/affiliation is a distinctively Jewish one. Even the Jihadis for all their barbarism are welcoming of converts and on occasion respectful towards those they view as useful allies/worthy opponents.
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I guess I think the goal of a Catholic is to live as how Christ lived (I’ve failed and am not in communion with the church presently).
Of course we all will fail at that. The sacraments when we try to accomplish that in good faith are there to give us forgiveness. And to believe that Jesus Christ the son God came to this earth to experience our experience and die for our sins to give us a path.
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