naraburns nihil supernum
6mo ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
‘Jews have no right to defend themselves’ or maybe ‘brown people can never do anything wrong’. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 200, Gaza then proceeded to elect a terrorist group which then started shooting at Israel. Israel blockaded them to prevent the inflow of weapons and promised it would stop if Gaza stopped shooting, it didn’t stop killing random Israelis for 16 years, then tore down the fence and killed more random Israelis, at which point Israel is now bombing them.
There isn’t a reasonable framework in which Israel isn’t well within its rights to bomb Gaza, and Hamas’s habit of putting military facilities in civilian infrastructure guarantees that Israel will kill and displace Palestinian civilians by doing so. You could be Amish level pacifist I guess, but that’s not a pro-Palestine framework. The only framework that allows you to be pro-Palestine is either ‘Palestinians are brown, and thus automatically right regardless of the facts of the case’ or ‘Israelis don’t have the right to defend themselves for some reason’.
It’s clearly not, and if the pro-Israeli side is so simplistic about it why even have a discussion? Do you really think “roll back the extralegal settlements in the West Bank” is the same as “exterminate the Jews in Israel?” Be serious.
It strikes me that neither side of this conflict seems in any reasonable state of mind to adjudicate it.
Were we in saner times, a great power would just take the whole territory and administrate it to solve this problem. One should want for the British, but then again they created this mess in the first place.
Still better them than eternal massacre for nonsense such as "self-determination" and rights "to exist".
I've honestly wondered if it wouldn't be an improvement if the US just annexed all of the territory just so everyone could put their differences aside for long enough.
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Notes -
What slogan do you want someone who doesn’t want the Israeli state to kill or displace Palestinians to use?
‘Jews have no right to defend themselves’ or maybe ‘brown people can never do anything wrong’. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 200, Gaza then proceeded to elect a terrorist group which then started shooting at Israel. Israel blockaded them to prevent the inflow of weapons and promised it would stop if Gaza stopped shooting, it didn’t stop killing random Israelis for 16 years, then tore down the fence and killed more random Israelis, at which point Israel is now bombing them.
There isn’t a reasonable framework in which Israel isn’t well within its rights to bomb Gaza, and Hamas’s habit of putting military facilities in civilian infrastructure guarantees that Israel will kill and displace Palestinian civilians by doing so. You could be Amish level pacifist I guess, but that’s not a pro-Palestine framework. The only framework that allows you to be pro-Palestine is either ‘Palestinians are brown, and thus automatically right regardless of the facts of the case’ or ‘Israelis don’t have the right to defend themselves for some reason’.
Why is “Israelis don’t have a right to continue to settle on Palestinian land and they should give it back” so hard to say?
Because it's equivalent to "Israeli Jews should be pushed into the sea."
It’s clearly not, and if the pro-Israeli side is so simplistic about it why even have a discussion? Do you really think “roll back the extralegal settlements in the West Bank” is the same as “exterminate the Jews in Israel?” Be serious.
Except that's not the Palestinian demands(which are "Israelis out, from the river to the sea Palestine will be free, it's all ours").
It strikes me that neither side of this conflict seems in any reasonable state of mind to adjudicate it.
Were we in saner times, a great power would just take the whole territory and administrate it to solve this problem. One should want for the British, but then again they created this mess in the first place.
Still better them than eternal massacre for nonsense such as "self-determination" and rights "to exist".
I've honestly wondered if it wouldn't be an improvement if the US just annexed all of the territory just so everyone could put their differences aside for long enough.
How do you predict the US would handle Gaza within its borders?
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