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PaperclipPerfector  5mo ago (text post)   4088 thread views

Small-Scale Question Sunday for November 5, 2023

Do you have a dumb question that you're kind of embarrassed to ask in the main thread? Is there something you're just not sure about?

This is your opportunity to ask questions. No question too simple or too silly.

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I've noticed what I think is the strongest source of Russell conjugations in my life: road rage, specifically with regard to cutting off people. It's amazing how strongly I feel it, even after I've noted the hypocrisy in myself. It's just the first and most basic instinct I feel in any of these situations. And I've even noticed a gendered component of how I think, informed by the political climate.

I merge into the lane, because I need to get into that lane, but they're stubbornly not letting me in.
He cuts me off, because he's a selfish dick who thinks he's a better driver than me and thinks I suck as a driver.
She cuts me off because she thinks that I'm a patriarchal male who thinks he's entitled to the road, which ultimately leads to her acting like an entitled bitch.

I struggle to think of what the Russell conjugations could even be for things like not using the turn signal or driving slowly in the passing lane on a two-lane highway for miles. I experience virtually no road rage at all even when another driver does something exceedingly dangerous, because I can usually imagine an innocent explanation and I've made those mistakes myself on occasion. But inconsiderate actions which are not plausibly the result of some mistake or lapse of attention make my blood boil and, if my wife's not in the car, profanity fly.

Use your fucking turn signal.

Use your fucking turn signal.

Driving is one of the activities that erodes my faith in humanity. People just don't care, and there is no direct consequences to their behaviour, so they will be lazy. Changing lanes without indicating (even in a multi-lane round about), tailgating, petty refusal to let people merge in front of them etc.

I'm reminded of that old joke about 50% of the population being below average intelligence. Frankly I'm amazed at how many traffic accidents don't happen.

I use it on a need-to-know basis -- many people seem to think 'changing into the lane in front of me' == 'cutting me off' and will accelerate to prevent that; those people don't need to know.

The problem is that you may not be a perfect judge of when someone needs to know your intention to turn. What if someone sees that your turn signal is off and thus assumes you intend to stay in your lane, so they think it's fine if they accelerate? Now you've just increased the risk of a collision if you happen to try to merge into his lane coincidentally simultaneously to his acceleration, as well as increasing the likelihood that both of you think the other guy is an asshole, doing your small part to further enshittify the driving culture wherever you live.

And lane changing wasn't even what I was thinking of when I mentioned the turn signal. I had in mind turns at intersections and going into and out of parking lots, driveways, etc.

hat if someone sees that your turn signal is off and thus assumes you intend to stay in your lane, so they think it's fine if they accelerate?

They will be too late, because I've already accelerated and pulled in front of them. I don't, like do this randomly without looking -- drive long enough in this kind of traffic and you know exactly what that guy is up to.

I had in mind turns at intersections and going into and out of parking lots, driveways, etc.

If I'm turning right or left, traffic at upcoming intersections do need to know -- also roundabouts, which a lot of people miss. (annoyingly)

Traffic behind me may or may not need to know; left turns most likely, but unless you are pretty close behind me it's probably none of your business if I'm turning right.

I try to fight this by reverse-Russelling everyone who behaves like a dick. You know how the fundamental attribution error works? "I am having a bad day, and he's just a dick"? Well, when someone's being an inconsiderate dick, I tell myself they are having a bad day.

I do that, too, but I guess I only do that when they're really acting like a dick, like zipping between lanes on the highway, narrowly cutting people off, going 100mph. I tell myself maybe his wife is having a baby, and he needs to get to the hospital.

On the topic of road rage, I'm a prolific road rager myself. Russel conjugations included.

However, I did fix the problem with one simple trick. Just.. drive like an "asshole" and don't think too much about it.

Game theoretically it makes sense. There's no way for you to be punished for cutting someone off or just merging in at the last second, especially in a large enough city/town where your reputation can't be at stake. All the rewards with none of the punishments.

Really, I can't convince myself any good reason to not "drive like an asshole".

It's hard to get that mad when you leave the house with the express intent of being a menace. You are the danger, take pride in the fact.

Is this Molochian? Yes. But the way to defeat Moloch is to devise a system where he has less influence not hopelessly holding onto the old system kicking and screaming and begging everyone to just not give into him.

Agree with dag, this is why we need priests, to tell people “just be nice, for god’s sake” without having to explain the game theoric calculations. Do you litter too? This is psychological littering.

Really, I can't convince myself any good reason to not "drive like an asshole".

It's dangerous and I'll hate myself. Those are good reasons. Virtue ethics once again trumps utilitarianism when it comes to actual life satisfaction.

This is why people don’t like game theory and people who use it to justify asshole behavior. You can apply your fancy math stuff all you like, I’ll still think you’re a dick.

And I'll still think you're superstitious and ultimately rely on utilitarian and game theoretic principles anyways when really prodded about it, but is not willing to give up the cake of having your moral high ground.

Dude moral high ground cake tastes better than you can even imagine. Have you tried it?

lol, I'm stealing this

Really, I can't convince myself any good reason to not "drive like an asshole."

You'll get there if you keep thinking. Apart from the danger to other people's lives (and also your own life and the lives of your passengers when your unstoppable force meets its immovable object), the most compelling reason to not be an asshole (on the road at high speeds in a 2 ton metallic box, in line at Lowe's, at the table at Red Lobster, or, yes, online): is that it's contagious. Your zooming in front of a frazzled mother shakes her up, she gets so rattled she snaps at her daughter, who is then a little bitch to her brother, who then storms out and throws a rock at a window. It's a cycle of destruction and human misery that is a microcosm of hell on earth. Sure, you get wherever faster and mildly more smug, but you've fucked over your fellow men and women to do so. If explaining why that is not ideal is necessary, it is probably also pointless.

That said, I understand you may have been going for hyperbole.

Here's the thing.

What you said is just about the worst-case scenario of driving like an asshole. And on net that is still probably still morally less worse than.. Using your phone while out on a dinner with friends. The cost is far too diffuse.

Although I am a big fan of thinking about and being mindful of nth order effects, nth order morality not so much. You can just about create a case for not doing anything ever because somewhere down the chain of events, someone gets harmed a non 0 amount.

And driving "like and asshole" isn't much more risky than not driving like an asshole. Certainly orders of magnitude less than um... texting and driving. Speed kills, not cutting in line at 20 mph.

What you said is just about the worst-case scenario of driving like an asshole

I see you've never driven on I-880.

What you said is just about the worst-case scenario of driving like an asshole.

No, it's not, not even close. The worst-case scenarios are low-probability events like cutting off the wrong guy and getting shot in the face or overestimating your own competence, killing someone, and being charged with negligent homicide.

Hmm. Do you get pissed off when someone cuts you off (and succeeds...Presumably with your view you're not going gently into that good shoulder)?

Mind you if we're talking about reasonably aggressive driving we may be of the same mind--too cautious drivers are also a hazard, which is one reason I enjoy driving the Osaka Loop (especially at night, like being in a sci fi film) and my wife hates it. But that's minus the assholery and maliciousness that "driving like an asshole" suggests to me. Maybe I need examples.

Really, I can't convince myself any good reason to not "drive like an asshole".

You might get into an accident. The more you demand others react quickly to avoid you, the more likely it is that someone will fail to do so.

I beleive deeply to my heart in road karma. You are buildign up bad road karma where you shell forever be trapped in the wheel of road samsara (the interstate) or even be road naraka (a roundabout where you are stuck on the inside lane and nobody lets you out for all of eternity)

where as I am VIRTUOUS and GOOD and will reach road nirvana (a working public transit system that takes me to the woods somehow shut up fuck you FUCK)

This is the true and I refuse to think about it.

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