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PaperclipPerfector  4mo ago (text post)   24657 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 25, 2023

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Because if you go the "we won, bitches, bend over and take it" route, then you are setting up for more civil wars.

That's fine, you just keep winning until they are thoroughly beaten down or all dead. There are few political problems that cannot be solved with sufficient application of violence, supposing you have the capacity to apply it.

And all that to achieve...what? That 13% of all brain surgeons and software developers are Black?

No, the beating down is its own reward.

From 1984 by George Orwell:

"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?"

...

"The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men." He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: "How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?"

Winston thought. "By making him suffer," he said.

"Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain. The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy—everything. Already we are breaking down the habits of thought which have survived from before the Revolution. We have cut the links between child and parent, and between man and man, and between man and woman. No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer. But in the future there will be no wives and no friends. Children will be taken from their mothers at birth, as one takes eggs from a hen. The sex instinct will be eradicated. Procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card. We shall abolish the orgasm. Our neurologists are at work upon it now. There will be no loyalty, except loyalty toward the Party. There will be no love, except the love of Big Brother. There will be no laughter, except the laugh of triumph over a defeated enemy. There will be no art, no literature, no science. When we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science. There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness. There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always—do not forget this, Winston—always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever."

That's fine, you just keep winning until they are thoroughly beaten down or all dead. There are few political problems that cannot be solved with sufficient application of violence, supposing you have the capacity to apply it.

Worked like charm in Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. Winning pitched battles is one thing.

Having a population of civilians that is really keen on backstabbing everyone with a yankee accent is really hard to govern.

The US cared about civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. At first we were trying to win hearts and minds, not subjugate them under our boot. By the end that was gone, but we never tried a serious campaign of crushing them and genocide was never on the table. (In Vietnam, of course, there was another superpower-backed army)

Those arguing that Reconstruction wasn't tough enough have no similar compunctions about subjugating Southerners.

I am fairly sure. I am talking about logistics though. The nazis had better technology, better records, much smaller (and better pacified) territory than the south, targeted a way smaller percentage of the population and they still managed to half ass the thing.

As far as genocides go, they didn’t half ass it, 85% of Jews in nazi occupied territory were killed. And if you’re talking about resistance movements in general, it was mostly pretty minimal for much of the war, particularly in Western Europe.

I think Nybbler's referring to the genocide option, or even the decimation option (every time there's a revolt, kill a random 10% of the population).

Killing 100% of the population of Iraq would, trivially, have prevented any uprising. It would also, of course, have been terrible.

In Vietnam you don't even need to go that far into "lol war crimes"; simply being willing to invade North Vietnam (and fight the PLA) would probably have sufficed, although that's a huge expenditure of men and money.

Yep. If the south kept resisting then a simple policy of "take the children of whites from them at age 6 and indoctrinate them in the memes of the north, only sending them back after the age of 18" would clear away the problem in a single generation (this could be paid for by taxing the south for the upbringing of its children) once the people indoctrinated with northern values started making up a large portion of the south.

Not saying this would be the right thing to do or even moral, but it is a possibility.

If the south kept resisting then a simple policy of "take the children of whites from them at age 6 and indoctrinate them in the memes of the north, only sending them back after the age of 18" would clear away the problem in a single generation

Ah yes, and this is why the implementation of the Residential Schools resulted in the complete erasure of Indian/First Nations groups, which today are mere memories with no relevance or political salience at all.

Education doesn’t raise IQ levels… not sure why this would do better than the last 70 years of public education has done at raising achievement rates for a particular section of the population.

You just described the public education system.

Except states set their own curricula and Southern states aren't exactly known for their wholehearted embrace of Anti-Racist memes.

Fair point.

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